The Philosophy Discussion Forum

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 4:48 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 4:46 pm

Devil's Advocate.
Inherently dishonest. It's even in the name.



Now that his question was answered ... bullshit sure to follow.

Don't know what your nonsense means.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 4:50 pm Don't know what your nonsense means.

Bullshit response.
I didn't write nonsense.

You and Gary think alike.
Bullshit question meet bullshit response.

Uh oh. Soul mates.



Will soul mates ride the JD Vance train?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:07 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 4:50 pm Don't know what your nonsense means.

Bullshit response.
I didn't write nonsense.

You and Gary think alike.
Bullshit question meet bullshit response.

Uh oh. Soul mates.



Will soul mates ride the JD Vance train?

Has something happened for you, Walker? You seem even more weird and creepy than usual.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:16 pm

Bullshit can only elicit so much ...

It’s like the wave of Europeans and other spectating foreigners visiting the US for the first time because of World Cup.
In interviews they express amazement that the US is not what they have been told in Bullshit Liberal Media.

Gary isn’t authorized to be a Devil's Advocate because his view of reality isn’t what he has been told.
Gary lives in the US and has become dulled to what amazes the rest of the world.

No doubt you can relate to that.

How about "Evil and Secularists"?

We need that topic first, because (presumably) it's a secularist asking. So we have every justification to ask him what he supposes he's talking about.

Secularism holds that all moral values are subjective, does it not? Certainly, most here do. That would lead us to believe that what he's asking is about why things aren't subjectively pleasing to him, for which he's only using "evil" as a kind of placeholder or rough synonym. But if that's the case, why should anybody answer him? In fact, how could they? He's asking why the world as he finds it doesn't please him: how would we know?

But if he means "objective evil," we need to ask how he locates such a thing, so as to be able to ask the question. What does a secularist know about objective evil? Is it not the case that he does not believe it exists, except in his subjective impression? Well, then, again, exactly what question is he trying to ask?

So we should ask how secularists can ask any such question, given what they say they believe about moral values. Something's not adding up.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:21 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:16 pm

Bullshit can only elicit so much ...

It’s like the wave of Europeans and other spectating foreigners visiting the US for the first time because of World Cup.
In interviews they express amazement that the US is not what they have been told in Bullshit Liberal Media.

Gary isn’t authorized to be a Devil's Advocate because his view of reality isn’t what he has been told.
Gary lives in the US and has become dulled to what amazes the rest of the world.

No doubt you can relate to that.

Seriously, what the f*** are you talking about?

What is the 'bullshit' you keep referring to? You swim in the stuff, so I'm not sure why you're screaming about it now.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:22 pm

Of course.


In order to not merely bray ignorance and self-deprication, Gary should begin with personal, ordered inquiry into the ordered nature of evil that is less shallow than the ending with orange man bad.

Then, contrast that to the ordered nature of good.

Both are ordered, but obviously both are not the same because they are ordered. They are both related to the intelligence that caused the order.

Then, go back to Evil and see how many of Good’s characteristics can be twisted by Evil into preconceptions that support Evil.

The way I figure it, Gary has the capacity but not what it takes to do that, which very well could be caused by a lack of steadiness, in which case taking responsibly is more than just words, but also at least a modicum of comprehension. That could be displayed by him, if it's there instead of pretending it isn't, like a Devil's Advocate wannabe.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:24 pm

Ah, I misjudged you. You're sincerely confabulated.

Are you educated? Formally?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:22 pm How about "Evil and Secularists"?

We need that topic first

Gary started this topic, and he can focus on what he wants.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:46 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:24 pm

Ah, I misjudged you. You're sincerely confabulated.

Are you educated? Formally?

The only one here spewing bullshit, Walker, is you. What was it that set you off?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:48 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:22 pm How about "Evil and Secularists"?

We need that topic first

Gary started this topic, and he can focus on what he wants.

Of course he can. I'd never say otherwise. But if, given his subjectivism, we don't even have any reasonable means to understand what he's actually asking us, that's going to make it a bit difficult for him to elicit any response.

If we believe in his moral subjectivism, and take it seriously, and believe he means it, then we can't make his question make any sense.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:55 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:48 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:22 pm How about "Evil and Secularists"?

We need that topic first

Gary started this topic, and he can focus on what he wants.

Of course he can. I'd never say otherwise. But if, given his subjectivism, we don't even have any reasonable means to understand what he's actually asking us, that's going to make it a bit difficult for him to elicit any response.

If you can't understand what he's asking or WHY... and you think the only approach is to completely re-frame or re-write his view according to yours -- then start your own topic based on your own subjective view... or whatever you imagine it to be.

There is PLENTY to be said about evil and Christians, which I have been writing about in other topics. It's too bad that you cannot bring yourself to acknowledge any of the obvious connections on that topic.

As I said, I think Gary is playing cards to bring out what people have in their hands... while he grapples with what he has been dealt.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:50 pm

As you do,
As Gary does,
As IC does,
I do what I must,
not what you think I must.

It's a musty thing.

*

Who knows?
Keyword: choiceless wu wei.
I could be talking to someone outside of time.
If not, the words still feel right, and there's a pleasure in right words.

What I do know is I must take the dogs for a walk.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2026 5:22 pm How about "Evil and Secularists"?

I created a thread for it.

Would Christianity/religion even exist without the concept of evil?

That makes evil an essential element. Essential elements are created and maintained by and for any means.