Philosophy Now Forum

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 1:06 am

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Mon Oct 13, 2025 6:21 pm

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Mon Oct 13, 2025 6:14 pm

What are you calling the "soul"? What do you believe is its relationship to mind?

Why do you believe that consciousness and intentionality don't "seem reducible to purely physical processes"? For all intents and purposes, how much different is it from Siri running on an iPhone?

Because Siri only processes data; it doesn’t experience anything. Consciousness involves awareness; the feeling of being, thinking, and choosing, which no physical process or machine truly possesses.

Can you explicitly answer the first question?

As to the second question, it was in regard to "don't seem reducible to purely physical process" rather than "consciousness". I guess I could have made that clearer. It would also be helpful if you can give me an idea of how well you understand software and its relationship to hardware.

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 1:17 am

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 12:52 am

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Mon Oct 13, 2025 6:14 pm

What are you calling the "soul"? What do you believe is its relationship to mind?

I see the soul as the main principle of life that gives rise to both mind and body. The mind thinks, the body acts, but both operate through the soul.

Could you provide more details on what you believe the "soul" to be? Also, what precludes what people refer to as the "soul" from being the part of the unconscious mind that they find incomprehensible?

I see the soul as more than the unconscious mind. The unconscious deals with hidden mental processes, while the soul is the deeper, immaterial principle that gives life and unity to the whole person — mind and body alike.

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 1:09 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Mon Oct 13, 2025 9:06 pm

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Mon Oct 13, 2025 4:53 pm

The signs of joy are physical, but the feeling itself isn’t.

is laughter a sign of joy?

-Imp

Yes, most of the time laughter shows joy, but not always. It can also come from humiliation, nervousness, or even foolishness.

is the feeling, of joy or any other emotion, not shown through bodily reaction? (intentional or not? are you ticklish?)

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 5:45 am

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 1:09 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Mon Oct 13, 2025 9:06 pm

is laughter a sign of joy?

-Imp

Yes, most of the time laughter shows joy, but not always. It can also come from humiliation, nervousness, or even foolishness.

is the feeling, of joy or any other emotion, not shown through bodily reaction? (intentional or not? are you ticklish?)

-Imp

Emotions are often expressed through the body, but the feeling itself isn’t identical to the reaction. The body shows it; the mind experiences it.

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 5:57 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 5:45 am

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 1:09 am

Yes, most of the time laughter shows joy, but not always. It can also come from humiliation, nervousness, or even foolishness.

is the feeling, of joy or any other emotion, not shown through bodily reaction? (intentional or not? are you ticklish?)

-Imp

Emotions are often expressed through the body, but the feeling itself isn’t identical to the reaction. The body shows it; the mind experiences it.

ever seen a map of the brain?

-Imp

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 2:52 am

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 1:17 am

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 12:52 am

I see the soul as the main principle of life that gives rise to both mind and body. The mind thinks, the body acts, but both operate through the soul.

Could you provide more details on what you believe the "soul" to be? Also, what precludes what people refer to as the "soul" from being the part of the unconscious mind that they find incomprehensible?

I see the soul as more than the unconscious mind. The unconscious deals with hidden mental processes, while the soul is the deeper, immaterial principle that gives life and unity to the whole person — mind and body alike.

You don't seem to have understood either question.

Saying that the soul is "the deeper, immaterial principle that gives life and unity to the whole person" is way too vague to be useful. What exactly is this "deeper, immaterial principle that gives life and unity"?

I wasn't asking what you believe is the role of the "soul". I was asking "what precludes what people refer to as the "soul" from being the part of the unconscious mind that they find incomprehensible?". Can you not understand the difference?

Also, you didn't respond to the second paragraph of the following post. Why? Can you do so now?

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 1:24 am

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 1:06 am

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Mon Oct 13, 2025 6:21 pm

What are you calling the "soul"? What do you believe is its relationship to mind?

Why do you believe that consciousness and intentionality don't "seem reducible to purely physical processes"? For all intents and purposes, how much different is it from Siri running on an iPhone?

Because Siri only processes data; it doesn’t experience anything. Consciousness involves awareness; the feeling of being, thinking, and choosing, which no physical process or machine truly possesses.

Can you explicitly answer the first question?

As to the second question, it was in regard to "don't seem reducible to purely physical process" rather than "consciousness". I guess I could have made that clearer. It would also be helpful if you can give me an idea of how well you understand software and its relationship to hardware.

Impenitent wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 2:39 pm

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 5:57 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 5:45 am

is the feeling, of joy or any other emotion, not shown through bodily reaction? (intentional or not? are you ticklish?)

-Imp

Emotions are often expressed through the body, but the feeling itself isn’t identical to the reaction. The body shows it; the mind experiences it.

ever seen a map of the brain?

-Imp

The view of René Descartes on dualism makes sense to me, though it might not to you. You’re free to explain it in physical terms like the brain, but I see the mind as something beyond that.

Impenitent wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 2:39 pm

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 5:57 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 5:45 am

is the feeling, of joy or any other emotion, not shown through bodily reaction? (intentional or not? are you ticklish?)

-Imp

Emotions are often expressed through the body, but the feeling itself isn’t identical to the reaction. The body shows it; the mind experiences it.

ever seen a map of the brain?

-Imp

The view of René Descartes on dualism makes sense to me, though it might not to you. You’re free to explain it in physical terms like the brain, but I see the mind as something beyond that.

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 5:21 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 2:39 pm

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 5:57 am

Emotions are often expressed through the body, but the feeling itself isn’t identical to the reaction. The body shows it; the mind experiences it.

ever seen a map of the brain?

-Imp

The view of René Descartes on dualism makes sense to me, though it might not to you. You’re free to explain it in physical terms like the brain, but I see the mind as something beyond that.

no, I think I agree with you in that I believe that the mind exists apart from yet within the body...

they have been mapping electrical impulses and chemical reactions in the brain more and more over the last few decades; and it appears that some emotions and brain states are more connected to the brain than we'd like...

will they find the mind under the medulla oblongata?

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 9:14 pm

abdullah masud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 5:21 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 2:39 pm

ever seen a map of the brain?

-Imp

The view of René Descartes on dualism makes sense to me, though it might not to you. You’re free to explain it in physical terms like the brain, but I see the mind as something beyond that.

no, I think I agree with you in that I believe that the mind exists apart from yet within the body...

they have been mapping electrical impulses and chemical reactions in the brain more and more over the last few decades; and it appears that some emotions and brain states are more connected to the brain than we'd like...

will they find the mind under the medulla oblongata?

-Imp

Thanks. I’m not sure about that.