Philosophy Now Forum

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:16 pm The world and all our reality is demonstrably and logically the best it can possibly be.

Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.
I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators.
The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Jun 20, 2025 8:56 am That world is the one in his head.

You see, Gary may not know it, but he is an ideologue.

As such, the world must conform to his notions, not vice versa.
(This is the choiceless effect of ... "made in the image of", that doesn't require consent of the one made in the image of.)

Nothing to be ashamed of. Idealists make the noise. Just look at Greta T, that little Swedish gnome. That's all she's got, the notions in her noggin that likely her clever daddy is capitalizing.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:33 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:16 pm The world and all our reality is demonstrably and logically the best it can possibly be.

Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.
I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators.
The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Candide was satire on Liebnitz's statement, "This is the best of all possible worlds." Voltaire thought otherwise.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:36 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:33 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:16 pm The world and all our reality is demonstrably and logically the best it can possibly be.

Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.
I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators.
The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Candide was satire on Liebnitz's statement, "This is the best of all possible worlds." Voltaire thought otherwise.

He was wrong.

If you have a way to show how we are not in the best of all possible physical worlds, given our history, then show it.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:54 pm
Do you have a way to show that we ARE in the best of all possible worlds?

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:37 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:54 pm
Do you have a way to show that we ARE in the best of all possible worlds?

How could it be better, given our past? There is no way.

Think of the anthropic principle and time line.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:40 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:37 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:54 pm
Do you have a way to show that we ARE in the best of all possible worlds?

How could it be better, given our past? There is no way.

Think of the anthropic principle and time line.

So it's impossible for the world to be or to have been any better than it is? Is that correct?

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 10:17 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:40 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:37 pm

How could it be better, given our past? There is no way.

Think of the anthropic principle and time line.

So it's impossible for the world to be or to have been any better than it is? Is that correct?

If I may. Of course. How could it possibly be better? How could it even be in a hundred years? Or a thousand? By basic measures of life expectancy, morbidity, mental health. Social justice.

What will these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Econo ... racy_Index ratings be like in 10, 100, 1000 years? And these? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Hap ... 025_report

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:47 am

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 10:17 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:40 pm

So it's impossible for the world to be or to have been any better than it is? Is that correct?

If I may. Of course. How could it possibly be better? How could it even be in a hundred years? Or a thousand? By basic measures of life expectancy, morbidity, mental health. Social justice.

What will these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Econo ... racy_Index ratings be like in 10, 100, 1000 years? And these? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Hap ... 025_report

So we can't have a world without diseases, natural disasters or global climate change or where nuclear weapons cannot be made? God (according to Liebnitz) surveyed all the possible worlds and this was the best. God the benevolent, omnipotent creator of EVERYTHING, couldn't possibly do any better?

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 10:17 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:47 am

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 10:17 pm
If I may. Of course. How could it possibly be better? How could it even be in a hundred years? Or a thousand? By basic measures of life expectancy, morbidity, mental health. Social justice.

What will these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Econo ... racy_Index ratings be like in 10, 100, 1000 years? And these? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Hap ... 025_report

So we can't have a world without diseases, natural disasters or global climate change or where nuclear weapons cannot be made? God (according to Liebnitz) surveyed all the possible worlds and this was the best. God the benevolent, omnipotent creator of EVERYTHING, couldn't possibly do any better?

Why, my friend, do you bring the non-existent, the fairy tale, the absurd into this? Nature can not. It's meaningless. Disease and natural disasters aren't moral, even the word disaster is subjective. And human passion for freedom of action is remarkably constrained by our eusocial intentionality. Wherever you are, you're usually about half way. Within a standard deviation. We've been behaviourially modern for at least 50,000 years due to our fully evolved supralaryngeal vocal tract (SVT). That gives us 30-50,000 years, unless we're sk(r)ewed: Only a full nuclear war can bring that about sooner. Why would Russia do that? She's winning. We've deferred the next ice age and even that wouldn't wipe us out. Global warming by the inevitable 4 degrees will certainly affect population. The greatest 'danger' by far is the population crash caused by too much contraception; for people's constrained, urban quality of life. Africa is the only continent where that's not happening. Yet. That will actually stop global warming as human economic activity reduces with population. It will eventually stop Russia's grand design, even this century. The only brake on that is religious fundamentalism... The Mormons will inherit the Earth. Happy Days!

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 3:55 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 10:17 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:47 am

So we can't have a world without diseases, natural disasters or global climate change or where nuclear weapons cannot be made? God (according to Liebnitz) surveyed all the possible worlds and this was the best. God the benevolent, omnipotent creator of EVERYTHING, couldn't possibly do any better?

Why, my friend, do you bring the non-existent, the fairy tale, the absurd into this? Nature can not. It's meaningless. Disease and natural disasters aren't moral, even the word disaster is subjective. And human passion for freedom of action is remarkably constrained by our eusocial intentionality. Wherever you are, you're usually about half way. Within a standard deviation. We've been behaviourially modern for at least 50,000 years due to our fully evolved supralaryngeal vocal tract (SVT). That gives us 30-50,000 years, unless we're sk(r)ewed: Only a full nuclear war can bring that about sooner. Why would Russia do that? She's winning. We've deferred the next ice age and even that wouldn't wipe us out. Global warming by the inevitable 4 degrees will certainly affect population. The greatest 'danger' by far is the population crash caused by too much contraception; for people's constrained, urban quality of life. Africa is the only continent where that's not happening. Yet. That will actually stop global warming as human economic activity reduces with population. It will eventually stop Russia's grand design, even this century. The only brake on that is religious fundamentalism... The Mormons will inherit the Earth. Happy Days!

Perhaps we all have a role to play in this world. Mine is to be as true to the ideal of Socrates as I am able.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:40 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:37 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:54 pm
Do you have a way to show that we ARE in the best of all possible worlds?

How could it be better, given our past? There is no way.

Think of the anthropic principle and time line.

So it's impossible for the world to be or to have been any better than it is? Is that correct?