Philosophy Now Forum

Consensus never changes? Alright dude. I think they're letting you out of your straight jacket a bit too often these days

I think that evolution definitely happened, and that it's a natural process, without any external guide. This doesn't just apply to the earth, but to the whole universe, too, if we use evolution in the broadest sense, as not just referring to life, but to the evolution of physical matter as well. This is not to say, however, that there's no place for the sacred, or the numinous, in this, and personally, at least, I regard the whole of nature itself, including evolution, as divine, though this doesn't imply that it has any conscious thought, or purpose. It doesn't even imply that it's benevolent, because clearly it can be very hostile, at times, but nevertheless, without it, none of us would be here. It is, in other words, the very origin of life, and the life-force, which we're all part of.

Maia wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:40 pm This is not to say, however, that there's no place for the sacred, or the numinous, in this, and personally, at least, I regard the whole of nature itself, including evolution, as divine, though this doesn't imply that it has any conscious thought, or purpose.

That's an interesting point of view, nice.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:44 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:40 pm This is not to say, however, that there's no place for the sacred, or the numinous, in this, and personally, at least, I regard the whole of nature itself, including evolution, as divine, though this doesn't imply that it has any conscious thought, or purpose.

That's an interesting point of view, nice.

Thanks. It's a fairly standard Pagan point of view, but they do say that whenever two or three Pagans are gathered together, there will be at least half a dozen conflicting opinions.

As for the genius who clicked number 2, it could have been me 15 years ago. I'm 70 now. And I'm MENSA like most here. It's got f*ck all to do with intelligence. Whoever you are, No. 2, good for you. And I'm hard atheist. Ah, MagsJ. Hi!

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 4:24 pm It's got f*ck all to do with intelligence.

Yeah I didn't make this thread to insult anyone's intelligence. I really am just curious. Magsj, thanks for answering.

Semi-related tangent, I did learn of some fascinating (imo extremely compelling) evidence for human evolution that I didn't know about previously - ERVs.

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 4:24 pm As for the genius who clicked number 2, it could have been me 15 years ago. I'm 70 now. And I'm MENSA like most here. It's got f*ck all to do with intelligence. Whoever you are, No. 2, good for you. And I'm hard atheist. Ah, MagsJ. Hi!

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 4:55 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 4:24 pm It's got f*ck all to do with intelligence.

Yeah I didn't make this thread to insult anyone's intelligence. I really am just curious. Magsj, thanks for answering.

Ancient texts talk of the genetic modification of peoples.. and more besides.

The ‘sciences’ are not a modern phenomena, and neither is intelligence.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 4:55 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 4:24 pm It's got f*ck all to do with intelligence.

Yeah I didn't make this thread to insult anyone's intelligence. I really am just curious. Magsj, thanks for answering.

Semi-related tangent, I did learn of some fascinating (imo extremely compelling) evidence for human evolution that I didn't know about previously - ERVs.

Indeed you did not Flannel Jesus. People like the savant Dembski and his ilk cannot believe in evolution, they must go to inordinate lengths of obfuscation to deny the absolute truth of ERVs, or, more honestly, as some do, accept it and still deny its truth. Accept that it looks 110% true, but deny it, that YEC is truer because Jesus died for their sins. Evolution is not to be believed. It is to be known. While it's a matter of belief, it cannot compete with theirs. Knowledge is a subset of belief, but it is the right hand of belief, it is coherent, justified true belief. The left hand is incoherent, unjustified false belief. Invariably false knowledge. I had that, for 50 years. Ever more refined. Luckily I never believed, I knew. It still took 50 years to realise what I knew was false. Our brains are believing machines down to the neuron. How we ever escape that to reason is miraculous. And plenty of brilliant believers tick 1.

MagsJ wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 7:18 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Apr 16, 2025 8:05 pm I wonder who the genius is who clicked number two

Me.

That's even more absurd than being a bog standard creationist. So you acknowledge scientific fact except for humans. Everything evolves--except for humans. We just suddenly appeared, fully formed....when, exactly, and from where?

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:34 pm Consensus never changes? Alright dude. I think they're letting you out of your straight jacket a bit too often these days

Why do you keep misreading, misinterpreting, misunderstanding, and/or just keep missing and not comprehending just about all I say and write, here?

Now, because will not just answer and clarify this very simple clarifying question, as well, I will tell you why you keep doing these things, it is because you just keep assuming I mean something else besides what I actually do.

So, once again will suggest you human beings just stop assuming things and just start being Truly open and honest, instead, then you will become curios, again, and then, and only then, you can and will start learning more, and anew.

Now, once more, because you have, still, not yet shown any curiosity nor interest at all, then this is why I have not yet, explained, fully, how and why 'consensus', itself, is where and when the actual Truths, in Life, are found, and known.

All you are doing,here, is believing what you are, which is stopping and preventing you from just seeking out actual clarity, and understanding, through just asking actual clarifying questions because you know that if what you have believed for most of your life now was actually not True at all, then an actual part of 'you', "yourself", will, literally, 'die' and thus fade away.

Age wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 10:32 pm

Yup keep yapping, never clarifying. "You misunderstood me" but never any actual corrections. Such a waste of words.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 10:45 pm

Age wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 10:32 pm

Yup keep yapping, never clarifying. "You misunderstood me" but never any actual corrections. Such a waste of words.

Once again by you not asking a single clarifying question proves that you have no interest at all. And, I certainly have no need, at all, to correct you.

That you want to keep believing, absolutely, what you do, here, and want to keep showing that you have no interest in changing nor learning any thing suits me absolutely perfectly.

The very reason why these people, back in the days when this is being written, took so, so long to understand how to find, and know, the actual Truth of things is being displayed by 'this one', here, now.

Continually assuming and believing one already knows 'the truth', instead of just being honest, open, and clarifying is the very reason why 'these ones' were left so, so far behind.

Maia wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:40 pm I think that evolution definitely happened, and that it's a natural process, without any external guide. This doesn't just apply to the earth, but to the whole universe, too, if we use evolution in the broadest sense, as not just referring to life, but to the evolution of physical matter as well. This is not to say, however, that there's no place for the sacred, or the numinous, in this, and personally, at least, I regard the whole of nature itself, including evolution, as divine, though this doesn't imply that it has any conscious thought, or purpose. It doesn't even imply that it's benevolent, because clearly it can be very hostile, at times, but nevertheless, without it, none of us would be here. It is, in other words, the very origin of life, and the life-force, which we're all part of.

Why do you only think 'evolution' is happening?
Absolutely every thing is a natural process.
There could never be any thing external to the Natural Universe.

The whole Universe is in one always continual evolutionary-creation, constant-change.
The whole Universe, and absolutely every thing within, is alive, living, and thus 'life'.
The change of physical matter, itself, is how and why all things are 'life', living; being alive.

There is 'conscious thought', in Life, and thus in Nature, and therefore is natural. And, obviously 'some thought' is more aligned with the 'Divine', than it is with the 'devil'.
There is a purpose for every thing, including you things known as 'human beings'. That some human beings never find out what 'their purpose' is never means that there is not a purpose for you human beings.

Nature, Itself, so-called 'hostile', and as you so Rightly said, without Nature, Itself, you human beings would have never been 'created' and have come into 'Existence', Itself.

There was no origin/start to 'Life', Itself, like there was no origin/beginning to the Universe/Existence, Itself.

There is no actual 'life-force', but instead there is a 'life-energy', and this is just because 'Life', Itself, does not 'force' any thing. Absolutely every 'thing', all matter, is 'free' to 'move about', and does so because of and with an 'energy' within, or behind, it.
you human beings are just a part of this very normal, and Natural, process.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:07 am
This might not be worth specifying, but please don't take the past tense nature of the questions to imply that that means evolution stopped. "Happened" is of course compatible with "and still happening".

So, why did you not just replace the last 'd' in 'happened' with an 's', and just replace the 'did' word with 'does'?

If you did, then you would have been more succinct, and thus easier to follow and understand.