Philosophy Now Forum

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:47 am I can't imagine any muslims boasting crassly about how much money they have

You don't know how much money I have. That is literally one of the best kept secrets on the planet.

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:47 am their 'hot prostitute wife'

While I lavishly provide for my wife, your problem is that no man will ever give you anything of value, not even one lousy cent.

The last man who tried to have a relationshit with you, many years ago, walked out on you, and never came back. You cannot keep a man. That is why you are a complete biological failure.

So, as a miserable social misfit, stop calling other women "prostitute". You are not even a prostitute.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:56 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:47 am I can't imagine any muslims boasting crassly about how much money they have

You don't know how much money I have. That is literally one of the best kept secrets on the planet.

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:47 am their 'hot prostitute wife'

While I lavishly provide for my wife, your problem is that no man will ever give you anything of value, not even one lousy cent.

The last man who tried to have a relationshit with you, many years ago, walked out on you, and never came back. You cannot keep a man. That is why you are a complete biological failure.

So, as a miserable social misfit, stop calling other women "prostitute". You are not even a prostitute.

Here we go

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:12 am Here we go

Life has to be at least bearable for the other person. In my case, it clearly is. In your case, not so sure. They are not running away from me like they are running away from you.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 12:32 pm

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:12 am Here we go

Life has to be at least bearable for the other person. In my case, it clearly is. In your case, not so sure. They are not running away from me like they are running away from you.

Who are you talking about?

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:21 am In other words, you are a Muslim if you insist that you are one.

So if all other Muslims insist that you aren't one... what happens then?

Because, uuuh.. there's your contradiction in Islamic jurisprudence.

Somebody who insists to be Muslim and recites the Shahada; yet that someone is also declared takfir by Islamic authorities.
Is such a person a Muslim; or a non-Muslim?

Which claim is more authoritative?

Really, you have no solution to the metaphysical problem of "Who decides?"

Tralalala! Contradiiiiction...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takfiri

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 1:19 pm Somebody who insists to be Muslim and recites the Shahada; yet that someone is also declared takfir by Islamic authorities.
Is such a person a Muslim; or a non-Muslim?
Which claim is more authoritative?

There is an adversarial judicial process that will decide the matter. If the defendant has a decent lawyer, he will pretty much always win the case. If you insist before an Islamic court that you are a Muslim, you will almost always win.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 2:08 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 1:19 pm Somebody who insists to be Muslim and recites the Shahada; yet that someone is also declared takfir by Islamic authorities.
Is such a person a Muslim; or a non-Muslim?
Which claim is more authoritative?

There is an adversarial judicial process that will decide the matter. If the defendant has a decent lawyer, he will pretty much always win the case. If you insist before an Islamic court that you are a Muslim, you will almost always win.

And what does that tell you?

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 2:08 pm There is an adversarial judicial process that will decide the matter. If the defendant has a decent lawyer, he will pretty much always win the case. If you insist before an Islamic court that you are a Muslim, you will almost always win.

I don't understand. Why do you need a court?

Why isn't this like marriage...Why isn't being a Muslim none of the government's business and beyond the limits of their authority?

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 6:45 am Marriage is none of the government's business.

It is beyond the limits of their authority.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 2:55 pm I don't understand. Why do you need a court?

Accusing some other Muslim of not being a Muslim is subject to an adversarial judicial process in which the defendant must be given the opportunity to tell his side of the story.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 2:55 pm Why isn't this like marriage...Why isn't being a Muslim none of the government's business and beyond the limits of their authority?

It is beyond the limits of a secular court but not beyond the ones of a religious one. But then again, that kind of cases rarely go to court.

Arguing between the merits of the two most popular and highly organized religions is like arguing between deck chair arrangements on the (philosophical) Titanic.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 7:55 pm Arguing between the merits of the two most popular and highly organized religions is like arguing between deck chair arrangements on the (philosophical) Titanic.

We are all on the Titanic. The sun's heat death and all. We are only arguing over which seats suck the least.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 3:03 pm Accusing some other Muslim of not being a Muslim is subject to an adversarial judicial process in which the defendant must be given the opportunity to tell his side of the story.

Again, I don't understand...

Why would somebody who believes this is true...

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:21 am In other words, you are a Muslim if you insist that you are one.

Recognize the validity of any accusation before any judiciary?

If the only criterion for religious identity is self-determination, then by definition no court - religious or secular - should have any legitimacy to conduct a trial.

What would be your reasoning for even showing up at such a kangaroo court? Avoiding the death penalty under erroneous takfir?
Are you not being coerced to participate in an illegitimate proceeding under threat of death?

La ikraha fi al-din.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 3:03 pm It is beyond the limits of a secular court but not beyond the ones of a religious one. But then again, that kind of cases rarely go to court.

And why would somebody who doesn't recognize the authority of the Christian Clergy over marital status, suddenly recognize the authority of any Sharia court over one's status as a Muslim?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:30 pm If the only criterion for religious identity is self-determination

It could still be contradictory. For example, you say that you are a Muslim but you publish blasphemies on Islam.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:58 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:30 pm If the only criterion for religious identity is self-determination

It could still be contradictory. For example, you say that you are a Muslim but you publish blasphemies on Islam.

You can't criticise Islam as a Muslim?

Wow! Next you are going to tell me you have an authority on blasphemies. What? Exactly like the Christian Clergy?

So what if I am publishing blasphemies? Are you going to coerce me to stop?

لَآ إِكْرَاهَ فِى ٱلدِّينِ ۖ

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:03 pm You can't criticise Islam as a Muslim?

Non-hostile criticism is actually fine. In Islam, a serious offense in this realm is called "insult" (rather than "blasphemy"). So, as a Muslim, you cannot "insult" Islam. That is part of the rules of the religion. I find that perfectly reasonable, but if you don't, there is no obligation to join Islam.