Why do Christians tell Lies?

[Walker]

When this Christian sings this to Christians, she gets a laugh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc7RcVqJ6Gk

If she sings a different tune to God, she and God both know what’s really in her heart, her heart that may change over time, what with time healing all wounds and Christian forgiveness.

[Fairy]

Why that’s not true at all. Any human being serious about their own life, who professes to be a Christian in this age of Christian persecution and bigoted sneering, comes to that declaration as a result of soul searching.

The soul searching may be deep or shallow, depending on the capacity of the individual, but I have noticed that Christianity does not attract the insincere who have failed to soul search. Contact with The Holy Bible practically demands it.

No, there is a rather shallow type of analysis that insists on making Christians narrow minded, superstitious, childlike and backwards in their hard-won simplicity (think Amish), and even stupid. However, among intelligent folks, that simply does not fly.

I think the purpose of running down Christians is a deep-seated insecurity that requires a little boost from believing the lie of … look how large I am because they, those backwards Christians, are so small.

Folks who do that really do not even know why they lie to themselves, and they are so concerned about the thoughts of others. Go figure. It is to wonder. The simple explanation is … busybodies.

The "power and my needs" lens is going to obscure what's really true. Alignment with what's really true attracts it back onto itself as the same truth, in it's reflective nature, then there's synergy, cocreation.

Really it's just attraction, attraction, attraction, which isn't what we believe it is. There's no one, or thing that is attractive, there's just attraction.

This topic is not bashing any one, it is about the concept of 'me' and the real 'me' which is without concept. And never the twain shall meet. Because they are identical images of each other, they are One. One is God, and there is no God for there is no other than God.

This topic is pointing to the fictional character known conceptually as a Christian, when there is no such thing. Although a Christian is known conceptually, it is known conceptually by that which is without concept...same one. A Christian is simply an image of the imageless, a fictional character.

[ThinkOfOne]

The answer is because....They Just Won’t Tell You The Truth
They do not want you to know the truth.


If you don't believe me that Christians lie, then watch this video to the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PPXxhqVaCo

Then make up your own mind about what is truth and what are lies when it comes to the idea of does God exist or not, and does God exist in the way we think God exists, or does God exist in a way we haven't thought about before, perhaps because we've constantly been lied to about God..

Bye the way...Beliefs are not KNOWING.

No one Knows anything, all they have are beliefs about what they only think they know, but don't.

A high percentage of Christians tell lies about Christian beliefs because more than a few of their foundational beliefs either completely lack evidence OR are demonstrably false. Yet most of them believe that they must have absolute faith that those beliefs are true in order for them to be "saved", to receive eternal life, to live in the Kingdom of God, etc. As such, for them NEITHER solid evidence NOR sound reasoning are required to hold strong beliefs. Neither does it matter how much evidence there is against. In other words, they believe that things are true simply because they believe them. Typically because it makes them feel good to believe them OR to relieve anxiety.

This methodology for belief formation often bleeds over to their secular beliefs as well. For example, it's why so many Christians are prone to demagoguery, believing conspiracy theories and believing the lies of those that they trust. Consider how many Christians are Trump supporters despite the fact that, for all intents and purposes, exemplifies most, if not all the things, that Jesus warned against and little, if anything, of what Jesus exhorted His followers to be.

This also speaks in part to why hypocrisy is so rampant amongst Christians, especially the Evangelicals, even though Jesus warned strongly against it.

Why that’s not true at all. Any human being serious about their own life, who professes to be a Christian in this age of Christian persecution and bigoted sneering, comes to that declaration as a result of soul searching.

The soul searching may be deep or shallow, depending on the capacity of the individual, but I have noticed that Christianity does not attract the insincere who have failed to soul search. Contact with The Holy Bible practically demands it.

No, there is a rather shallow type of analysis that insists on making Christians narrow minded, superstitious, childlike and backwards in their hard-won simplicity (think Amish), and even stupid. However, among intelligent folks, that simply does not fly.

I think the purpose of running down Christians is a deep-seated insecurity that requires a little boost from believing the lie of … look how large I am because they, those backwards Christians, are so small.

Folks who do that really do not even know why they lie to themselves, and they are so concerned about the thoughts of others. Go figure. It is to wonder. The simple explanation is … busybodies.

What's particularly striking about what you've written above is how much of it seems to be the product of ego defense mechanisms - particularly projection and delusions of grandeur.

If any of this is true, then by all means show all the solid evidence and sound reasoning that result from this "sincere...soul searching"''; that underlies their "hard-won simplicity".

[ThinkOfOne]

The answer is because....They Just Won’t Tell You The Truth
They do not want you to know the truth.


If you don't believe me that Christians lie, then watch this video to the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PPXxhqVaCo

Then make up your own mind about what is truth and what are lies when it comes to the idea of does God exist or not, and does God exist in the way we think God exists, or does God exist in a way we haven't thought about before, perhaps because we've constantly been lied to about God..

Bye the way...Beliefs are not KNOWING.

No one Knows anything, all they have are beliefs about what they only think they know, but don't.

A high percentage of Christians tell lies about Christian beliefs because more than a few of their foundational beliefs either completely lack evidence OR are demonstrably false. Yet most of them believe that they must have absolute faith that those beliefs are true in order for them to be "saved", to receive eternal life, to live in the Kingdom of God, etc. As such, for them NEITHER solid evidence NOR sound reasoning are required to hold strong beliefs. Neither does it matter how much evidence there is against. In other words, they believe that things are true simply because they believe them. Typically because it makes them feel good to believe them OR to relieve anxiety.

This methodology for belief formation often bleeds over to their secular beliefs as well. For example, it's why so many Christians are prone to demagoguery, believing conspiracy theories and believing the lies of those that they trust. Consider how many Christians are Trump supporters despite the fact that, for all intents and purposes, exemplifies most, if not all the things, that Jesus warned against and little, if anything, of what Jesus exhorted His followers to be.

This also speaks in part to why hypocrisy is so rampant amongst Christians, especially the Evangelicals, even though Jesus warned strongly against it.

Exactly, thank-you for your valuable, and interesting take on this. Yes, this whole sorry mess as to who the real and true identity and author of life and SELF itself..IS is all due to the beliefs we have adopted from other people, and taken them on to be our own belief as well. False Belief becomes nothing more than a virus infecting ever single born mind that pops aware into a life that must already exist for the possibility to be born into it in the first place. In other words, we don't actually come into life as separate being detached from life, as if we are a single identity, formed as a concept. Rather, we are nothing but life, life-ing. Life is pure brilliant aliveness right here and now, life doesn't need an identity to be what it is, it's simply no one or thing being everything, same no thing life-ing..

Behind every belief is this immediate self-shining, self illuminating, brilliance and beauty that is the mystery of the aliveness of life. We are that aliveness that is life, we do not have to adopt a ''belief'' to know we are already this life. Life is our direct experience, it's impossible to negate or deny, or to experience it's absence. Belief is not knowing. Only knowing is knowing, and we are already that knowing, a knowing that cannot be known because it's all the same one knowing, life itself, for itself, and no other self.

Thanks for your participation T.O.O.

Seems like a high percentage of Christians posting on this forum are American Evangelical Christians OR are heavily influenced by them. Following are excerpts from an article written by a Christian. The article should be read in its entirety. Should lend further perspective on this.

The Wasting of the Evangelical Mind
The peculiarities of how American Christianity took shape help explain believers’ vulnerability to conspiratorial thinking and misinformation.
By Michael Luo
March 4, 2021


How did the church in America––particularly, its white Protestant evangelical manifestation––end up here? For many skeptics, the explanation seems obvious: faith and reason are antipodes––the former necessarily cancels out the latter, and vice versa.

Evangelicalism in America, however, has come to be defined by its anti-intellectualism. The style of the most popular and influential pastors tend to correlate with shallowness: charisma trumps expertise; scientific authority is often viewed with suspicion. So it is of little surprise that American evangelicals have become vulnerable to demagoguery and misinformation.

The revivalism, which arose in New England and the mid-Atlantic colonies and then spread to the South and West, helped lead to explosive growth for the church. But it also elevated a certain kind of charismatic leader. “The Puritan ideal of the minister as an intellectual and educational leader was steadily weakened in the face of the evangelical ideal of the minister as a popular crusader and exhorter,” Hofstadter writes.

“Scripture, they believed, still had the answers to all of life’s problems––but what were they?

Crucially, fundamentalists came to embrace a number of theological innovations that were previously not at all central to Christian orthodoxy... The “plain reading” method of interpretation ignored the cultural and historical context in which biblical authors were writing, and encouraged believers to apply a misguided, quasi-scientific approach to Bible verses, treating them as “pieces in a jigsaw puzzle that needed only to be sorted and then fit together,” as Noll writes. Biblical inerrancy, which Noll points out had never before occupied such a central place in any Christian movement, became foundational.

“Much of what is distinctive about American evangelicalism is not essential to Christianity,”

From <https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... lical-mind>

[Impenitent]

Why do socialists tell lies?
Why do communists tell lies?
Why do government officials tell lies?

they're human and they use language.

-Imp

[Fairy]

Why do socialists tell lies?
Why do communists tell lies?
Why do government officials tell lies?

they're human and they use language.

-Imp

Yes, you are only telling me what I already know.

What about the lie Christians tell about God.

Stay On Topic

This is about the Christians who lie about God using language obviously.

Why can't the Christians just tell the truth about God? Huh!!

Doh, seriously, what it it with you dumb brain Yanks.

[Alexiev]

Why do socialists tell lies?
Why do communists tell lies?
Why do government officials tell lies?

they're human and they use language.

-Imp

Yes, you are only telling me what I already know.

What about the lie Christians tell about God.

Stay On Topic

This is about the Christians who lie about God using language obviously.

Why can't the Christians just tell the truth about God? Huh!!

Doh, seriously, what it it with you dumb brain Yanks.

You appear to be defining "lie" in exactly the same way as IC. You both appear to think that untrue statements are "lies". But they aren't. A lie is an untrue statement that attempts to deceive. Fictions are not lies (they don't attempt to deceive). Mistakes are not lies, they may deceive, but don't attempt to do so (if they were lies, every scientist, who inevitably makes mistaken statements, would be a liar).

Doubtless some "Christians" do lie, motivated by social or financial rewards to misrepresent their true beliefs.

Here Adrienne Rich chips in, in a perspicacious essay.

https://www.worldofphilosophy.net/post/ ... s-on-lying

[Fairy]

You appear to be defining "lie" in exactly the same way as IC. You both appear to think that untrue statements are "lies". But they aren't. A lie is an untrue statement that attempts to deceive. Fictions are not lies (they don't attempt to deceive). Mistakes are not lies, they may deceive, but don't attempt to do so (if they were lies, every scientist, who inevitably makes mistaken statements, would be a liar).

No mistake was ever made. No deception ever happened. Reality has no intent, no goal, no purpose, reality is absolute complete perfection.

Fairy and IC and Christian alike, are fictional characters, these named characters are the Lie. These named characters could not Lie to save their skin because they do not exist, they are illusions, they are the Lie.

The Truth Lies behind the Lie, hiding in pain sight, obscured by the great Lie. The Lie is a false, illusory secondary overlay upon the Truth.

IC doesn't want people on this forum to know the Truth. It's odd, since the IC character himself doesn't even know he does not exist.

The rest is History. Water under the bridge, passed away.
'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies!

IC is a dead parrot, continuing to throw dead parrot parties.

No one wants you to know this. No one has been deceived, no one has been deluded, and no one still chooses the Lie over reality.

Thank you, you're welcome!

[Fairy]

Here Adrienne Rich chips in, in a perspicacious essay.

https://www.worldofphilosophy.net/post/ ... s-on-lying

Excellent essay. Thanks for popping it in.

[ThinkOfOne]

Why do socialists tell lies?
Why do communists tell lies?
Why do government officials tell lies?

they're human and they use language.

-Imp

Yes, you are only telling me what I already know.

What about the lie Christians tell about God.

Stay On Topic

This is about the Christians who lie about God using language obviously.

Why can't the Christians just tell the truth about God? Huh!!

Doh, seriously, what it it with you dumb brain Yanks.

You appear to be defining "lie" in exactly the same way as IC. You both appear to think that untrue statements are "lies". But they aren't. A lie is an untrue statement that attempts to deceive. Fictions are not lies (they don't attempt to deceive). Mistakes are not lies, they may deceive, but don't attempt to do so (if they were lies, every scientist, who inevitably makes mistaken statements, would be a liar).

Doubtless some "Christians" do lie, motivated by social or financial rewards to misrepresent their true beliefs.

Here Adrienne Rich chips in, in a perspicacious essay.

https://www.worldofphilosophy.net/post/ ... s-on-lying

A lie is an untrue statement that attempts to deceive. Fictions are not lies (they don't attempt to deceive). Mistakes are not lies, they may deceive, but don't attempt to do so

Seems overly simplistic. See the article at the following link:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/lying-definition/
I only skimmed it, but the point is that it's much, much more complex than what you've presented.

Consider disinformation as an example. Let's say an individual is mistaken and believes the disinformation, the spreads it. Is the disinformation that the individual spreads not still a lie?

Doubtless some "Christians" do lie, motivated by social or financial rewards to misrepresent their true beliefs.

Consider the "disinformation" example above.

Christianity is a system of belief that is built upon a foundation of lies. This is demonstrable using only the Bible as a source. That Christians believe the lies is irrelevant.

[Impenitent]

any golfers in the house?

-Imp

[Fairy]

any golfers in the house?

-Imp

Thanks for swinging by!

[Alexiev]

Yes, you are only telling me what I already know.

What about the lie Christians tell about God.

Stay On Topic

This is about the Christians who lie about God using language obviously.

Why can't the Christians just tell the truth about God? Huh!!

Doh, seriously, what it it with you dumb brain Yanks.

You appear to be defining "lie" in exactly the same way as IC. You both appear to think that untrue statements are "lies". But they aren't. A lie is an untrue statement that attempts to deceive. Fictions are not lies (they don't attempt to deceive). Mistakes are not lies, they may deceive, but don't attempt to do so (if they were lies, every scientist, who inevitably makes mistaken statements, would be a liar).

Doubtless some "Christians" do lie, motivated by social or financial rewards to misrepresent their true beliefs.

Here Adrienne Rich chips in, in a perspicacious essay.

https://www.worldofphilosophy.net/post/ ... s-on-lying

A lie is an untrue statement that attempts to deceive. Fictions are not lies (they don't attempt to deceive). Mistakes are not lies, they may deceive, but don't attempt to do so

Seems overly simplistic. See the article at the following link:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/lying-definition/
I only skimmed it, but the point is that it's much, much more complex than what you've presented.

Consider disinformation as an example. Let's say an individual is mistaken and believes the disinformation, the spreads it. Is the disinformation that the individual spre.ads not still a lie?

Doubtless some "Christians" do lie, motivated by social or financial rewards to misrepresent their true beliefs.

Consider the "disinformation" example above.

Christianity is a system of belief that is built upon a foundation of lies. This is demonstrable using only the Bible as a source. That Christians believe the lies is irrelevant.

The Stanford site defines lie as

to make a believed-false statement to another person with the intention that the other person believe that statement to be truel

Unsurprisingly, this is similar to my definition, although it would allow for the case in the Camus novel where the prisoner thinks he is giving the interrogators false information, but it turns out to be true. That seems like a distinction without a difference. Of course the moral culpability (or non culpability) of the person making the true statement that he believes to be false is identical to that of a liar, but the case is so rare, and the results so different from those of a false statement, that we need hardly consider it. Also, the prisoner trying to protect his fellow traveler by giving the police true information (which he thinks is false) doesn't seem morally culpable to me.

In any event, it's irrelevant to whether Christians are lying. If "disinformation" is always a "lie" then all the great scientists of the past are equally liars. They said the Earth is the center of the universe! Time is a constant! What liars!

None of us knows whether many of the things we say are "misinformation" or not. How could we? But if we believe our statements to be true, we are not liars.


In addition, incorrectly calling entire groups of people "liars" constitutes bigotry. Perhaps you should avoid it.

[Alexiev]

any golfers in the house?

-Imp

I thought it was fisherman who were noted liars. An apocryphal story (which is not a lie, although I have no idea if it is true or not):

Samuel Clemens (aka Mark Twain) was returning home from a fishing trip to Maine. He started bragging to the gentleman with whom he shared a compartment on the train. "The fishing was great!" he said, "We caught over our limit every day!"

"Before you go on," said the fellow traveler, "I think I should tell you that I'm the head fish and game warden for the state of Maine."

"And before I go on," Twain replied, "I should tell you that I'm the biggest liar in the state of Maine."

[Walker]

What's particularly striking about what you've written above is how much of it seems to be the product of ego defense mechanisms - particularly projection and delusions of grandeur.

If any of this is true, then by all means show all the solid evidence and sound reasoning that result from this "sincere...soul searching"''; that underlies their "hard-won simplicity".

This sounds like an atheist saying that religion and atheism share the same object of devotion, which is hardly the case.

Atheism is a product of ego defense and delusions of grandeur ... objects of devotion.

Christians are simply devoted to God, a devotion born from soul searching. Christians will tell you the same thing, unless you frame the question as a gotcha, then interpretation of Christians simply becomes a gotcha word game.