Philosophy Now Forum

promethean75 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 3:20 am That's exactly right. I have finally decided that the vision of saint marx is too advanced for mankind, something that could only exist if man was a physiologically and psychologically different animal.

I suppose the irony is enough for me, though. That the thing men most loathed, feared, and got consistently wrong in both practice and interpretation was, in fact, the very thing that would have saved them... wretched and primitive as they were.

Marxism fails, and cannot be implemented, because the Proles cannot be managed by other Proles. Even you-yourself are proof of this, Prom. You refuse to lead other men. And you refuse to be led by other men. Any supposed 'worker uprising' requires management of the people, of the masses. And this is precisely what differentiates the Bourgeois/Royalty from the Proles/Serfs/Slaves.

Managing other men is more difficult than blue-collar work. You should know, and admit this, by now.

Fuckin proles. I hate em.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2024 4:11 pm Fuckin proles. I hate em.

Take your pick:

https://i.4cdn.org/pol/1737130308656916.png
https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/494538085

Hardcore comrades might enjoy this old classic... one of Wolffs greatest hits. The most accessible breakdown of Marxism (really historical materialism) you may ever find. One of those where after watching it you no longer have an excuse because now you know what Marxism is and you can no longer make asinine comments about it.

https://youtu.be/T9Whccunka4?si=RMywasfyBVuVx3Od

^^^ Ricky nailed it @ 10:30 and pulled out the Plato and Aristotle. He, they, are exactly right. Haggling... that new asocial destructive force in societies arranged as bartering systems. In fact, I'd argue that this method, process, of trade is the origin of the instinct of shitiness. The first instance of shittiness occurred when two traders were trying to negotiate and so engaged in all those manipulative and spiteful tactics that make one ugly; pointing out defects to get him to lower the price, bolstering the value of what you have artifically, complaining (secretly soliciting sympathy) about what it took you to make it... all ugly parts of human character. Conniving, misleading, etc.

The first kind of complex social conflict that was not only necessary but also encouraged (be a good salesman!) under the arrangement of that kind of market.

This is not capitalism or a critique of it... just commmentary on this insight. Seriously, think of the major leap from a distribution system where a very small group is given portions of commodities by elders or elected officials and a system of distribution involving trade among and between several independent specialized producers of goods and services. Shit gets real, bro. I'm like bro it took me three years to grow this and you like ten minutes to make those gloves. There's no way I'm giving you two for that pair. But bro, you didn't have to acquire a sewing machine to grow that shit. You know how much this machine cost me? Ha! Try getting a deal on a half acre of healthy topsoil. Don't talk to me about expenses, pal.

See what Plato and Aristotle are sayin'. That's just ugly, man. Greeks have too much pride to be reduced to hagglers. It's below them clearly, and should be below you too.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 13, 2025 1:04 pm ^^^ Ricky nailed it @ 10:30 and pulled out the Plato and Aristotle. He, they, are exactly right. Haggling... that new asocial destructive force in societies arranged as bartering systems. In fact, I'd argue that this method, process, of trade is the origin of the instinct of shitiness. The first instance of shittiness occurred when two traders were trying to negotiate and so engaged in all those manipulative and spiteful tactics that make one ugly; pointing out defects to get him to lower the price, bolstering the value of what you have artifically, complaining (secretly soliciting sympathy) about what it took you to make it... all ugly parts of human character. Conniving, misleading, etc.

That is a somewhat naive look at a social activity (haggling). It is much more complicated. Thus in a society where haggling is normal/expected, it is NOT haggling that can be spiteful/shitty. There are "rules" to follow indicating spiteful/shitty vs a good natured game over small differences.

Thus in the Bible, the story of Abraham buying the burial cave is describing a transaction between two rich men who dislike each other, disrespecting each other, trading insults. We can tell this because things going on ABNORMAL in a haggling transaction in their haggling culture.

The early history of trade often includes elements foreign to us. We need to be careful when analyzing not to assume our cultural values were theirs.