Philosophy Now Forum

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:48 pm ... we can make everything
and anything to be self-evident, if we so desire...

How so?

simplicity wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:17 pm After all, Absolute Simplicity IS Absolute Truth.

That's just stupid, so you may as well learn to take it better when people tell you that.

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:38 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:31 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:25 pm


Thanks for the cutting-edge analysis. Do you have anything else to offer? Is it only affirmation for you?

I'm saying it fails by it's own criteria. I can't tell if you caught onto that

Yes, I understood what you are saying but you are just like 99% of the people here who have nothing to say. You only disagree with everything that does not fit into your narrative

Have you tried setting aside the notion that you know anything about me and instead considered the possibility that the self defeating nature of your idea here is actually a good point against it?

It seems as though you've taken criticism of this idea personally. You don't need to.

I've been meditating for over a decade (and it has helped me tremendeously, especially in seeing more clearly), but I still honestly have no idea how people like simplicity and roydop arrive at some of the things they say. If anything, I've learned that many "truths" are probably even less evident than we usually think.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:41 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:17 pm After all, Absolute Simplicity IS Absolute Truth.

That's just stupid, so you may as well learn to take it better when people tell you that.

Could it possibly be that you do not understand, or do you just like telling people that what they write is, "stupid?"

How old are you?

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:42 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:38 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:31 pm

I'm saying it fails by it's own criteria. I can't tell if you caught onto that

Yes, I understood what you are saying but you are just like 99% of the people here who have nothing to say. You only disagree with everything that does not fit into your narrative

Have you tried setting aside the notion that you know anything about me and instead considered the possibility that the self defeating nature of your idea here is actually a good point against it?

It seems as though you've taken criticism of this idea personally. You don't need to.

I don't care what you think about what I have written, only what you have to add to it. That's the purpose of a conversation on a philosophy board.

Atla wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:03 pm If anything, I've learned that many "truths" are probably even less evident than we usually think.

Please elaborate.

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:23 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:42 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:38 pm Yes, I understood what you are saying but you are just like 99% of the people here who have nothing to say. You only disagree with everything that does not fit into your narrative

Have you tried setting aside the notion that you know anything about me and instead considered the possibility that the self defeating nature of your idea here is actually a good point against it?

It seems as though you've taken criticism of this idea personally. You don't need to.

I don't care what you think about what I have written, only what you have to add to it. That's the purpose of a conversation on a philosophy board.

No it's not

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:30 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:23 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:42 pm

Have you tried setting aside the notion that you know anything about me and instead considered the possibility that the self defeating nature of your idea here is actually a good point against it?

It seems as though you've taken criticism of this idea personally. You don't need to.

I don't care what you think about what I have written, only what you have to add to it. That's the purpose of a conversation on a philosophy board.

No it's not

Thank you for demonstrating your inability to add anything to the conversation.

Have a good day!

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:24 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:03 pm If anything, I've learned that many "truths" are probably even less evident than we usually think.

Please elaborate.

There were "truths" that I originally believed in, to the point that it never even occured to me to question them. I mean they were so basic, and inherent in everything, that I didn't even really perceive them, so it wasn't even possible for me to question them. They were that self-evident.

And a lot of meditation and other reflection showed them wrong. I really didn't see that coming.

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:20 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:41 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:17 pm After all, Absolute Simplicity IS Absolute Truth.

That's just stupid, so you may as well learn to take it better when people tell you that.

Could it possibly be that you do not understand, or do you just like telling people that what they write is, "stupid?"

How old are you?

If it wasn't simple enough for me to understand it also wasn't true.

Atla wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:38 pm
And a lot of meditation and other reflection showed them wrong. I really didn't see that coming.

Ah that's where the disconnect is happening. We're talking to a guy who has focused most of his efforts here in a thread called "Why Thinking Is Over-rated"

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:22 pm People ALWAYS know that they're being bullshi!tted.

I don't think that's true, in any normal sense of the word know. As far as I can see Bullshiting people is very effective and people fall for PR, advertising, political campaigns, guilt trips, fads, fashion, memes that are based on bullshit.
That's the world I live in. I don't know what you experience, but I see people falling for lies all over the place.

How can you live into your adulthood and not understand this? It starts from a very young age and becomes a full court press during the school years and then during adolescence it becomes apparent for all but the truly B,D&D.

I certainly see the bullshitting. I also see people falling for this.

If nothing else, people know when they are being bullsh!tted. The requirement to participate [in the system] is to make this part of who you are and we all do it to some extent. Those in positions of power, to a great extent. Just the same, you can [in your own life] tell people the truth and make a difference. You see people out there doing it [although unfortunately, less and less].

Well, you keep asserting people know. I see them buying crap, joining trends, voting for liars and idiots. Companies spend enormous sums on making bullshit related to their businesses, and they would definitely stop if that wasn't working. So, I don't really know what you're talking about. How do you know that everyone recognizes bullshit?

The first thing that needs to happen is to understand the problem. In health care, there are many but the biggest is that it was taken over by interests that have as its primary objective, profit, and although I am a serious free market capitalist, the corruption of the economic system [via crony capitalism and corporatism] has been particularly virulent to the point where the most important aspect of care [educating the patient] has been made subservient to profit making [testing and procedures].

Well, if everyone can see through bullshit, then it doesn't really matter how well the doctors commmunicate. The patients can say...hey that's BS. I want a different drug, for example.

EVERYBODY knows this health care system is horribly corrupt...it IS self-evident.

Well, if everybody knows, there's no need to say it. It's like me starting a thread telling people they need to breathe.

OH, and by the way. You didn't respond to most of the points I made. You simply reiterated your position.

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:38 pm You only disagree with everything that does not fit into your narrative [which is probably the oppressor/oppressed one that is selling at a discount these days].

So, if we disagree with parts of your narrative, you''ll consider what we have to say?

Atla wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:38 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:24 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:03 pm If anything, I've learned that many "truths" are probably even less evident than we usually think.

Please elaborate.

There were "truths" that I originally believed in, to the point that it never even occured to me to question them. I mean they were so basic, and inherent in everything, that I didn't even really perceive them, so it wasn't even possible for me to question them. They were that self-evident.

And a lot of meditation and other reflection showed them wrong. I really didn't see that coming.

As you deepen your meditation, you will begin to see the true nature of all kinds of things. The first idea to keep in mind is we are talking about two entirely different ways of "thinking." The first is the relative [intellectual], the other is the Absolute. This is where most Zen students get confused because [they go back and forth].

In the intellectual world, ALL things come and go. This includes truths [as they are built upon things coming and going, as well]. When I was saying that the truth is self-evident, what I meant is that most people can experience truth immediately before their thinking mind kicks-in. Sort of how initial impressions can be uncannily accurate.

There are an unlimited number of truths out there that we take for granted because we do not have the time nor the capacity to evaluate them. This does not mean that we necessarily accept them Upon consideration, we might reject them out of hand. This is not what I am talking about though. Again, what I am referring to is the time that lies between when the stimulus is perceived but before the thinking mind has the opportunity to change our perceived reality into our personal reality. This is where the truth is self-evident.