Philosophy Now Forum

Janoah—if you are an educated person, you would readily agree that with any communication one must have the audience in mind. As you are communicating using an obsolete form of speech, you clearly don’t have your audience in mind. You even ignore pleas for you to communicate clearly, revealing your lack of concern in regard to communication with your audience.

One can easily discern that you are a flaming asshole, who doesn’t deserve any of the feedback given, including this useless post.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:42 pm The Bible is full of crap. What do you have to say about that, Janoah?

The Bible has many layers and is not a single thing. So ‘it’ cannot be described in blanket terms. In my view in any case.

Harbal, how are you?!? I know we’ve not traded blunderbuss blasts for ages. Have you improved any?

Just out of curiosity, what did the Bible predict about the 2024 presidential election here in America?

If only sort of.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:38 pm Just out of curiosity, what did the Bible predict about the 2024 presidential election here in America?

If only sort of.

It may interest you (or not) to know that DT is associated with prophecy and is associated with Cyrus.

Cyrus the Great was the founder of the Achaemenid Empire and king of Persia from 559 to 530 BC. He is venerated in the Hebrew Bible as Cyrus the Messiah for conquering Babylon and liberating the Jews from captivity.

Ask Janoah. Certainly he knows …

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:35 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:42 pm The Bible is full of crap. What do you have to say about that, Janoah?

The Bible has many layers and is not a single thing. So ‘it’ cannot be described in blanket terms. In my view in any case.

What's in the Bible has nothing to do with it; I was trying to provoke Janoah, whoever he is.

Harbal, how are you?!?

I'm as well as can be expected; how about you?

Have you improved any?

Not really; I think I'm losing my edge. I can't remember the last time I really upset anyone.

I understand, I really do. But remember: the longer we stay at this, the thicker our skins get.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:44 pm who are actually the fools or fooling themselves?

Judging by what is said in the quotes, those who bark and oink..

I am not interested in blind faith, I am talking about what is obvious, and I will welcome opinions based on natural regularities and philosophical generalizations.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:38 pm Just out of curiosity, what did the Bible predict about the 2024 presidential election here in America?

If only sort of.

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:55 am Perhaps we should try something else

This is interesting, what would you suggest trying, for example?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:44 pm

Janoah wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:30 pm The fool does not possess wisdom, cannot obtain wisdom, and would not obtain it if he could.

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

There is no Law written for fools.

Can you engage here in your own words? Many of us do not hang on what the Bible says, and any discussions about religion are naturally going to be challenged on a philosophy forum.

The 'messages' put forth in the Bible can be observed and interpreted from different perspectives and for different purposes. For example... your quotes above... who are actually the fools or fooling themselves?

The 'foolish ones', which is ALL of adult human beings, at times.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:44 pm Who are those who make idols from religion, despite being advised not to?

"christians" are renowned for it.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:44 pm Where does evil live, more than behind the curtains of religion?

IN EVERY adult human being in the form of the 'thought', which drives Wrong behavior/s.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:44 pm What is actually holy and divine --

Some call 'it' the 'energy', which is naturally pulsing throughout all.

"others" call 'it' the 'life force', or, the 'living energy', within ALL.

Then there are "others" who call 'it' God, which is said to be WITHIN EVERY 'thing'.

And then there are some who call 'it' Mind, of which there is One ONLY Mind, and which is what PROVIDES ABSOLUTE Intelligence, and which is what ALLOWS and CREATES the ABILITY to learn, understand, and reason ANY and EVERY 'thing'.

might it have less to do with religion, and more to do with what is naturally pulsing throughout all? [/quote]

And let 'us' NOT FORGET that 'it' IS what ALLOWED 'religion' to COME INTO Existence, and TO EXIST.

Obviously what IS 'naturally pulsing throughout 'all' would ALSO INCLUDE 'religion' and/or 'those' who ARE RELIGIOUS.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:44 pm What is more divisive than religion?

And, 'religion' is just BELIEF in and/or of some 'thing'. So, what CAUSES more 'division' among 'you', human beings, is probably NOTHING more than BELIEF, itself.

As can be CLEARLY SEEN, and PROVED True, throughout this forum, let alone THROUGHOUT human history, itself.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:44 pm And yet the religious are always telling the non-religious how to be.

But YET "lacewing", itself, is just "ANOTHER one" AMONG 'the religious'.

"lacewing" just BELIEVES, and HOLDS BELIEF, in some 'thing' DIFFERENT. EXACTLY like ALL of 'you', adult human beings, DO.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:44 pm I think the Bible contains some wisdom, just as so many other perspectives and time periods do. But it appears to me that the Bible actually speaks and warns most in regard to its own followers. And the religious seem to have a way of manifesting the doom to fulfill their own prophecies, while blaming it on the non-religious.

EXACTLY like "lacewing" ALSO has a way of manifesting the doom to fulfill 'its' own prophecies, while blaming it on the non-religious/believer, of what 'it' IS that "lacewing" BELIEVES IS TRUE.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:16 pm Jesus

What is said in the Gospels is for the most part paraphrases of what is said in the Tanakh (The Hebrew Bible), but in this topic I’m talking about the predictions of the Tanakh.

***and as a way of life? which is the most important part of what it means
to be human?***

These are really good and extremely important questions!
I like the motto
"and gladness for the upright in the heart" (Psalm 97)

And a man with the last name Kropotkin apparently likes the motto “Anarchy Is The Mother Of Order”, no?

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:16 pm my problem with biblical predictions, besides the whole
being wrong a lot part, ( how many times does the bible
suggests is the end times and did Jesus actually have a
second coming, as suggested by the bible? No, on both counts)

The bible probably SUGGESTED, or SAID, that the 'end times' and the 'second coming' WILL just HAPPEN ONCE, ONLY.

Of which, OBVIOUSLY, BOTH had NOT YET ARRIVED/HAPPENED, that is; BACK in the days when this WAS being written.

But, the END TIMES of 'this stressful, bickering and fighting, war-torn, and pollution-riddled world' WILL, and DID, COME-ABOUT WITH the so-called 'second coming' of "jesus". Which, by the way, just MEANS WHEN an ACTUAL UNDERSTANDING of what words like "jesus", among MANY other written words, ARE and WERE REFERRING TO, EXACTLY IS COME-TO BE KNOWN.

And the reason WHY it is ONLY the "jesus" word that is MENTIONED, and REFERRED TO, in relation TO the SECOND COMING, which is JUST WHEN the True and FULL UNDERSTANDING BECOMES KNOWN, will ALSO BE FULLY UNDERSTOOD, when ALL IS REVEALED.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:16 pm is that the bible itself takes us away
from where we need to be.... the bible takes us to think of ourselves
as part of some big mystical plan of god, when we should be thinking
about who we are and what does it mean to be human?

HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE 'you', "peter kropotkin", to 'think' ABOUT 'What does it mean to be human?' BEFORE 'you' WILL COME-TO an ACTUAL REALIZATION, and CONCLUSION?

I WILL GIVE 'you' A HINT. It does NOT take MORE than about A minute for the Truly OPEN ones TO COME-TO and KNOW the ACTUAL IRREFUTABLE ANSWER.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:16 pm in reading the bible,
we are focused on the wrong thing.. the wrong goal, the wrong actions....

IF that IS what 'you' DO, then okay. BUT WHY are 'you' CLAIMING that what 'you' DO, IS what 'we' DO, ALSO?

Which, by the way, WAS a VERY COMMON trait among the adult human being population BACK in the days when this was being written.

WHY 'they' DID 'this', although absolutely OBVIOUS, was COMPLETELY and UTTERLY BEYOND 'their' COMPREHENSION.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:16 pm for example, the bible says that one can reach heaven by a belief in Jesus,

Which IS VERY, VERY True.

But who and what the 'one' IS, EXACTLY, and, who and what "jesus" IS, EXACTLY, was STILL NOT YET KNOWN, by 'these people', YET 'they' would STILL go ON and ON and ON as though 'they' DID KNOW.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:16 pm and so one focuses on holding a belief in Jesus... when we should be
focused on us and our society/state.....

WHEN, and IF, 'you' are EVER around to LEARN, FIND OUT, and KNOW what the word "jesus" IS ACTUALLY REFERRING TO, EXACTLY, then 'you' WILL ALSO LAUGH OFF at just how STUPID and HUMOROUS this VIEW and BELIEF REALLY IS.

'you' WILL ALSO BE LAUGHING AT JUST HOW OBVIOUS 'things' HAVE REALLY BEEN ALL ALONG, but which 'we' ALL COMPLETELY and UTTERLY MISSED and MISUNDERSTOOD ALL OF 'that time'.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:16 pm we are thinking about the bible, but
we should be thinking about what makes a better human being?

Which TAKES and TOOK the Truly OPEN ones, AGAIN, about A minute, or FAR LESS, to REALIZE, UNDERSTAND, and KNOW, FULLY.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:16 pm I have read the bible many times,

It does NOT matter ONE IOTA how MANY TIMES one LOOKS AT or READS some 'thing'. What REALLY MATTERS, HERE, IS HOW one IS LOOKING, and thus SEEING, 'things'.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:16 pm and it has some really good stories..

WHO CARES what ONE INDIVIDUAL FINDS as a 'good', or a 'really good', story, and ESPECIALLY WHEN 'you' do NOT even ALLUDE to what 'you' FIND IS A 'really good story'?

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:16 pm but that is all the bible is good for, its stories... the bible presents us
with some possibilities.... and we can hold to the bible in terms
of the possibilities that it suggests.... nothing more....

Who and/or what is the 'we', which 'you' KEEP REFERRING TO here?

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:16 pm and as a way of life? which is the most important part of what it means
to be human? the bible message/goal is not a very good ''way of life''
for us to be pursuing.....

Kropotkin

What, EXACTLY, is the message/goal of 'the bible', in relation to a 'way of life', which 'you' ARE READING, and GAINING, here "peter kropotkin"?

From what I have READ, and GAINED, is that the 'way of life' OF living IN Peace and IN Harmony WITH EVERY one, as One, is a FAIRLY GOOD 'way of life', to be pursuing.

I would even go AS FAR as SAYING that 'it' IS A 'way of life' that absolutely EVERY one STARTED OUT WANTING, and DESIRING. So, WHY 'you' think or BELIEVE that 'this way of life' is NOT a very good one AT ALL, to pursue, 'you' MAY SHARE WITH 'us'. We will WAIT, to SEE.

'each to their own', as some say.

Or, just MAYBE FROM and THROUGH 'your', supposed and alleged, MANY readings of 'the bible' 'you' have COME-TO a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT UNDERSTANDING of what 'the bible's' message/goal IS, EXACTLY, FROM 'us'. Maybe 'you' MAY SHARE WITH 'us' what, EXACTLY, IS 'the message/goal' that 'you' have TAKEN AWAY, FROM READING 'the bible'?

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:52 pm What Janoah is trying to say, and what he wishes to make clear, has to be guessed.

OR, OBVIOUSLY, what "janoah", or ANY one for that matter, is trying to say, and what 'they' wish to make clear, could be GAINED, and ACTUALLY OBTAINED, through CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, INSTEAD, and RATHER.

Some of 'these people' had BECOME SO HABITUALLY LACKING OF CURIOSITY and INQUISITIVENESS that 'they' ACTUALLY CAME TO BELIEVE that the ONLY WAY to UNDERSTAND what "another" was SAYING, and ACTUALLY MEANING, was BY just GUESSING, ONLY.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:52 pm He seems to be “testing” whether those who read here believe in biblical prophecy.

But does he believe in it? And if so what is now happening that has been specifically prophesied?

Note that in Isaian terms Yahwism is the ultimate and absolute imperialism. And Yahweh the Absolute Imperialist. When Christians say “every knee shall bow” that expresses the Judaic vision.

(How are things IC? You have squeaked nothing on these topics for a few weeks now. What gives?)

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:22 pm

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:52 pm What Janoah is trying to say, and what he wishes to make clear, has to be guessed.

And until we know his intentions, he should be treated with hostility, and thereafter, possibly with more hostility.

WHY WHEN one just BELIEVES the OPPOSITE of what "another" does, then there, supposedly, SHOULD BE 'treated' WITH 'hostility', and if the "other" does NOT 'come around' to one's OWN BELIEF or "one-side" of 'things', then there WILL POSSIBLY BE even MORE HOSTILITY, "harbal"?

Which, by the way, 'this type of reactive misbehavior' was THE CONSEQUENCE of the TEACHING OF 'debate' and the TEACHING that one MUST HAVE A BELIEF, and/or TO FIGHT FOR 'your' OWN BELIEFS and what 'you' BELIEVE IS TRUE, and RIGHT.

Janoah wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:57 pm "He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame:
And he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot."
((PROVERBS 9, 7)

Well, you just did that, by implication. So, you got a blot and shame.