Philosophy Now Forum

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:20 pm It seems, to me, that you have too many items on your plate and you won't have enough time or energy to do anything effective.

Also, some of those items are entirely out of your control or anyone's control. What can one do about disease or death? We already invest in medical research.

What about war and environmental destruction? Are those not occurring?

sure one could look at the ''sufferings" of man and his
attempts to destroy everything to make a few bucks...
but and this is important... we human beings have
a dual nature...... we are the destroyers but we
are also the creators... we have beautiful music and
ART and the mystery of the bee... there is much in life
that is actually quite wonderful....

and the question has been asked, although Gary doesn't realized
he asked it, but the question is, who is man? Is he the destroyer
or is he the creator? Yes, we are both... often times within seconds of
it other... for me anyway, the question has always been about what
is possible for us... are we capable of creating great beauty?
yes, no question about... the music we make and the ART we create
and the pictures we paint... that is one side of the possibilities of man...
and the other side? the history of the last 100 years paints that picture...
of man's inhumanity to man... of Auschwitz.. of Jack the Ripper,
of school shootings, of the destruction of beautiful places like
the Amazon... just to make a few bucks...

so, which side of those two pictures is the ''real'' human nature
of us?

the real question is not what we have done, but what can we do?

we can seek out the possibilities of love and hope and peace instead of
hate and anger and violence... we have choices... and what choices you
make define who you are... I choose to seek out my possibilities of
being a great philosopher.... whether I make it or not, history will tell..
but that is my goal... to be a great philosopher.. mentioned in the same
breath as Nietzsche or Kant.... Now one might say, but Kropotkin,
you are insane... no, I merely seek out what is possible for me..
nothing more...I seek out the possible greatness in me... and that
is my contribution to existence... the possibility of being...
what are your possibilities? I have no way of knowing...
but the point of existence is to seek out that which is
your possibility... or as Nietzsche said, to become who you are...

you can easily seek out your possibilities in hate and violence
and despair... but I would hope you seek out what is possible for
you... what is your possible greatness? seek out that...
are you a great Artist? Are you capable of love? it doesn't matter
if you haven't found love, are you capable of love?
are you one who can find beauty in the moment..
in the moment of the sunset or the beauty of the mountains....
seeking out that which is beautiful is just as important as
swimming in the muck of existence....

to say, yes, the world is fucked up.. but I don't have to abide by
that... for I can seek out the beauty of existence...
and love and seek out peace and hope... yes, Auschwitz does exists,
but so does love and peace and beauty.... so which path are you going
to pursue?

Kropotkin

"but so does love and peace and beauty.... so which path are you going to pursue?"

The socio path, naturally.

What about war and environmental destruction? Are those not occurring?

Everyone has a limited about of time and energy. Therefore, they need to be focused in order to have any hope of being effective.

Acting on one problem is probably going to be more effective than complaining about 10 problems.

And it will probably feel better, because "I'm doing something" usually feels better than "I'm complaining about something".

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:32 pm so which path are you going to pursue?

Kropotkin

Right now I'm pursuing the path of gaining momentum for those who don't want global destruction. One person alone cannot achieve anything worthwhile, especially when so many are doing evil.

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:36 pm

What about war and environmental destruction? Are those not occurring?

Everyone has a limited about of time and energy. Therefore, they need to be focused in order to have any hope of being effective.

Acting on one problem is probably going to be more effective than complaining about 10 problems.

And it will probably feel better, because "I'm doing something" usually feels better than "I'm complaining about something".

Doing arises from complaining. If we don't complain, then what is currently being done will not change.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:36 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:32 pm so which path are you going to pursue?

Kropotkin

Right now I'm pursuing the path of gaining momentum for those who don't want global destruction. One person alone cannot achieve anything worthwhile, especially when so many are doing evil.

K: and who cares if you are the only person in planet Earth trying to stop the
onslaught of destruction...you can achieve something worthwhile...

As you may have notice, I am a lone voice advocating a course of action
that no one seems to notice or care about... but so what?
I will continue my path of seeking out what is ethics, what is moral,
what is being human all about... it doesn't matter to me if no one
else reads me or cares about what I wrote... I am a sole voice,
and I will continue to speak out until the day I die..

the battle is not to change the entire world in a night..
but to change one person.. if I have done that, I am a success...
regardless if the world notices or not..
because I don't care if the world notices or not....
I have my message, my mission as it were... and it is my
choice until it isn't... I won't know if I have succeeded,
my success or failure won't be apparent until long after I am dead...

so I continue my lonely battle to change the minds and hearts of
my fellow human beings... it isn't about the number of people
I might change, but about my own belief in the message I am
presenting the world...and if one, ONE person is change by
my message... I have done good...and I can live with that

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:08 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:36 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:32 pm so which path are you going to pursue?

Kropotkin

Right now I'm pursuing the path of gaining momentum for those who don't want global destruction. One person alone cannot achieve anything worthwhile, especially when so many are doing evil.

K: and who cares if you are the only person in planet Earth trying to stop the
onslaught of destruction...you can achieve something worthwhile...

As you may have notice, I am a lone voice advocating a course of action
that no one seems to notice or care about... but so what?
I will continue my path of seeking out what is ethics, what is moral,
what is being human all about... it doesn't matter to me if no one
else reads me or cares about what I wrote... I am a sole voice,
and I will continue to speak out until the day I die..

the battle is not to change the entire world in a night..
but to change one person.. if I have done that, I am a success...
regardless if the world notices or not..
because I don't care if the world notices or not....
I have my message, my mission as it were... and it is my
choice until it isn't... I won't know if I have succeeded,
my success or failure won't be apparent until long after I am dead...

so I continue my lonely battle to change the minds and hearts of
my fellow human beings... it isn't about the number of people
I might change, but about my own belief in the message I am
presenting the world...and if one, ONE person is change by
my message... I have done good...and I can live with that

Kropotkin

It sounds like we're on the same page, then.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 11:09 am WE can know what is right and what isn't. And then WE are given no choice but to do what is not right. There's something in this world far more "perverse" than humanity, and WE are its victims.

Sounds like a story by H.P. Lovecraft! Poor humanity; they only seem evil because some unknown perverse power drives them to it. We puny humans only act the way we do being in the thrust of malevolent powers! On our own, we would know what's right and follow the right path but humans have been crippled and sabotaged by a deviant force in spite of our best intentions!

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:43 pm Is anyone happy with life?

Yes, just about everyone, at some times.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:43 pm Considering all the destruction going on in the world, not only now but throughout history, one war after another, environmental destruction, species extinction, diseases, economic stagnation, slavery, and finally inevitable death, how can anyone be "happy"?

VERY EASILY and VERY SIMPLY, just by and through the way one LOOKS AT and SEES 'things', especially WHEN one is ABLE TO ANSWER the QUESTION, 'Who am 'I'?' properly AND correctly.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:43 pm How can any of us have the will with which to form a smile on our faces?

AGAIN, VERY SIMPLY and VERY EASILY.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:43 pm How can anyone care who wins the World Series?

Does ANY one, REALLY, anyway?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:43 pm How can anyone care what is written in the millions upon millions of written works produced by thousands upon thousands of "great" writers?

VERY EASILY and VERY SIMPLY, TOO.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:43 pm Nothing has significantly changed.

In relation to 'what', EXACTLY?

Some 'things' have CHANGED, VERY SIGNIFICANTLY, while, OBVIOUSLY, some other 'things' NOT to the SAME degree or SAME SIGNIFICANCE.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:43 pm We still face the same fundamental problems human societies have faced since their beginning.

Like 'what', EXACTLY?

What, EXACTLY, was a, supposed, 'fundamental problem' in 'human societies', that 'their' beginning, and 'you', human beings, in the days when this is being written allegedly 'STILL face'.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:43 pm How does one attain happiness in the later stages of life?

VERY EASILY and VERY SIMPLY, especially when they LEARN, and UNDERSTAND, and KNOW what the ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY, in regards to some 'things'.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:43 pm When we're young we rush out into the unknown and slowly discover that there is only death and finitude--for all of us.

ONCE AGAIN, here we have FURTHER PROOF of just how MUCH 'these people', BACK THEN, were INDOCTRINATED INTO BELIEVING ABSOLUTELY False and Wrong 'things'.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:43 pm We discover that the animals we eat feel pain when they are killed. We discover that people have killed themselves, perhaps over things we carelessly said. We discover that science and knowledge really aren't what we thought they were when we first followed the wonder that drew us to them. We discover that along the course of our vocations and careers, we did little more than profit off each other's misery and deficits.

When 'you' SAY the 'we' word here, who, EXACTLY, are 'you' REFERRING TO, "gary childress"?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:43 pm What is there to smile about? What is there to relish?

What 'you', human beings, are ABLE TO DO, CREATE, and ACHIEVE.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:43 pm Our family saved a stray cat and a stray dog years ago. We eventually put them both to sleep to end their final suffering. We gave them good lives and we watched them decline and die. Not one among us will "ride off into the sunset" before the movie credits. We'll simply die, possibly in pain, possibly unexpectedly. Nevertheless, we will die and there is no way to avoid or avert it. The only certainty in life is that it will end for each of us and the thought evokes dread and anxiety.

Talk ABOUT BELIEVING 'things', when one does NOT YET KNOW what the ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY, and FULLY.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:43 pm And how many other living beings must we torture and kill in order to keep ourselves alive?

Since WHEN has a 'human being' HAD TO BE 'tortured' AND 'killed' in order to keep "others" alive?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 11:09 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 12:14 am There could be far less defective intelligences on other planets in other galaxies. Who's to say! Pity! The human race could have evolved into something far less perverse and destructive, but as it stands, the entire group proved itself to be nothing more than a toxin that should be completely wiped from the planet.

Could WE have evolved into something "far less perverse and destructive"?

NO. For a couple of reasons.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 11:09 am Did WE ever stand a chance? How else do WE get nourishment than to kill something?

'Killing' SOME 'things' is PERFECTLY ALL RIGHT, while 'KILLING' some OTHER 'things' IS NOT ALL RIGHT AT ALL.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 11:09 am WE can't sustain ourselves by eating dirt. And if it weren't for the corpses of billions of living things that died in the past WE wouldn't even have the fuel to run the machines that sustain our societies.

This is OBVIOUSLY False AND Wrong, ALSO.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 11:09 am No. It is not humanity that is "perverse". WE can know what is right and what isn't. And then WE are given no choice but to do what is not right. There's something in this world far more "perverse" than humanity, and WE are its victims.

The OBVIOUSLY False and Wrong BELIEFS and ACCUSATIONS here CONTINUE.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 12:35 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 12:18 pm As long as you don't accept what is, you will be miserable.

I will not "accept" evil. I'm sorry. I will be miserable until the world is a good place to live.

What WOULD MAKE 'the world' a so-called 'good place' to live, to 'you', "gary childress"?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:22 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:19 pm You can change what you label as 'evil'.

For example, some people call earthquakes 'evil', some don't. This is a choice.

I am not here concerned with Earthquakes. I'm concerned with the things I put in the OP.

one war after another, environmental destruction, species extinction, diseases, economic stagnation, slavery, and finally inevitable death

Those are things that concern us ALL.

Economic stagnation, for one, can be one of the 'GREATEST things' and NOT an 'evil thing' AT ALL.

But, AGAIN, and ONCE MORE, ABSOLUTELY EVERY 'thing' is relative TO 'the observer', and thus HOW 'one' LOOKS AT and SEES 'things'.

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:38 pm One can say those things are not evil. You're labeling them as evil.

One can also say that only people can be evil, not objects or events.

One can also say that people can NEVER be 'evil', "themselves", BUT 'what' 'you', adult human beings, DO can be VERY, VERY 'evil', indeed.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:36 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:32 pm so which path are you going to pursue?

Kropotkin

Right now I'm pursuing the path of gaining momentum for those who don't want global destruction.

'I' and 'you' do NOT want 'global destruction'. So, what 'plan' have 'you' got in regards to what 'we' can do here for what 'we' do NOT want?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:36 pm One person alone cannot achieve anything worthwhile,

Do NOT be SO ABSOLUTELY SURE of 'this'.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:36 pm especially when so many are doing evil.

I suggest 'you' make a LIST of 'who', EXACTLY, IS DOING 'evil' and 'who', EXACTLY, IS NOT DOING 'evil', and THEN WORK FROM 'there'.

By the way, I have ALREADY MADE and DRAWN UP A LIST, IF ANY one here IS Truly INTERESTED.