Philosophy Now Forum

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:04 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 5:36 pm

The soul is completely genderless.
_______

How many souls have you tested for gender?

Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:19 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 4:45 pm

Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 4:21 pm


There are many reasons why someone claims to be something they are not, seeking attention and valid mental issues are the primary causes for transgenderism. Just as we don't affirm an anorexic's warped view of their body by prescribing them diet pills we should not be affirming transgenders' warped view of their bodies by playing to their delusions and cutting off body parts.

I think what we should be doing is letting those qualified to deal with the issue decide what is appropriate, and you are obviously not one of those.

Isn't that what I was pointing to - those qualified to deal with issue of anorexia do not affirm their patients' delusions? We're talking about distorted views of one's body whether it be their weight or their sexual identity. Why would we have different treatments for the same type of disease unless one group was made out to be victims by one side of the political spectrum and deserve special treatment.

Personally, I couldn't care less what kind of treatment they receive as long as it doesn't include trampling on my right to free speech and thought.

seeds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:29 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:04 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 5:36 pm

The soul is completely genderless.
_______

How many souls have you tested for gender?

All of them (via logical deduction).
_______

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 4:49 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 4:39 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 3:41 pm

Throw out all the nonsense, by all means, but there will still be an issue lying under where the pile of rubbish used to be. I don't know much about this subject, but I do know there is a recognised condition called gender dysphoria, and that living with it must be a miserable experience.

Absolutely. But the key question is this: when somebody is mentally ill, miserable and dysphoric, what should one do? And my answer would be, "By all means, give them the best treatment we can, to help them come to grips with reality." The answer from the trans set is, "Poison them, sterilize them, cut their genitals off, and drive them as deeply as you can into their delusion."

Which one seems to be the compassionate answer?

A bunch of unqualified know-it-alls on an internet forum deciding their fate will not, in my opinion, result in a compassionate outcome.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:20 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 4:49 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 4:39 pm
Absolutely. But the key question is this: when somebody is mentally ill, miserable and dysphoric, what should one do? And my answer would be, "By all means, give them the best treatment we can, to help them come to grips with reality." The answer from the trans set is, "Poison them, sterilize them, cut their genitals off, and drive them as deeply as you can into their delusion."

Which one seems to be the compassionate answer?

A bunch of unqualified know-it-alls on an internet forum deciding their fate will not, in my opinion, result in a compassionate outcome.

Well, the right outcome has to be based on truth. So deciding what the truth is, is the first step to making sure the right and truly compassionate treatment is what is advocated.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:40 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:20 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 4:49 pm

A bunch of unqualified know-it-alls on an internet forum deciding their fate will not, in my opinion, result in a compassionate outcome.

Well, the right outcome has to be based on truth. So deciding what the truth is, is the first step to making sure the right and truly compassionate treatment is what is advocated.

Their treatment is not our concern, and we have no business sticking our noses in. What is our concern is accommodating them in society without sacrificing our own rights.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:07 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:29 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:04 pm

How many souls have you tested for gender?

All of them (via logical deduction).
_______

If you say so, but I can't help wondering how you know enough about souls to be able to make logical deductions about them.

seeds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:15 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:07 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:29 pm
All of them (via logical deduction).
_______

If you say so, but I can't help wondering how you know enough about souls to be able to make logical deductions about them.

Well, admitting that it is a huge (possibly false) assumption that the soul is real and survives the death of the body, I can't help wondering how much thought you've invested in trying to imagine what a soul (sans body) would consist of?

Clearly this is all just speculation arising from my greater theory on the subject of our ultimate and eternal form,...

...but are we to imagine that after the soul is born out of this thing...



...that it will still have either a penis or a vagina?

I mean, considering the fact that with just a few minor edits in the DNA of our developing embryo while still in our mother's womb, anyone of us could have just as easily been born the opposite gender of what we are now,...

...how then can gender be made to seem as though it were an integral aspect of our ultimate form?
_______

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:53 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:40 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:20 pm
Well, the right outcome has to be based on truth. So deciding what the truth is, is the first step to making sure the right and truly compassionate treatment is what is advocated.

Their treatment is not our concern, and we have no business sticking our noses in. What is our concern is accommodating them in society without sacrificing our own rights.

What our society does to them IS our concern. And castrating and sterilizing them is a violation of human rights. If that doesn't concern you, I don't know what will.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:26 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:53 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:40 pm

Their treatment is not our concern, and we have no business sticking our noses in. What is our concern is accommodating them in society without sacrificing our own rights.

What our society does to them IS our concern. And castrating and sterilizing them is a violation of human rights. If that doesn't concern you, I don't know what will.

There's no need for melodrama; you're as bad as they are.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:28 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:26 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:53 pm
What our society does to them IS our concern. And castrating and sterilizing them is a violation of human rights. If that doesn't concern you, I don't know what will.

There's no need for melodrama; you're as bad as they are.

So you're showing up not to make a moral/ethical argument about this, but just to tell everybody they have no right to make a moral/ethical argument about it?

And you're imagining that's a moral argument?

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:32 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:28 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:26 pm

There's no need for melodrama; you're as bad as they are.

So you're showing up not to make a moral/ethical argument about this, but just to tell everybody they have no right to make a moral/ethical argument about it?

And you're imagining that's a moral argument?

It might not make any sense to you now, but all will become clear when you die. Trust me.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:47 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:32 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:28 pm
So you're showing up not to make a moral/ethical argument about this, but just to tell everybody they have no right to make a moral/ethical argument about it?

And you're imagining that's a moral argument?

It might not make any sense to you now, but all will become clear when you die. Trust me.

I don't think we need to. It's pretty clear it makes no sense even now. It's self-contradicting.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:49 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:47 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:32 pm

It might not make any sense to you now, but all will become clear when you die. Trust me.

I don't think we need to. It's pretty clear it makes no sense even now. It's self-contradicting.

Yes, I've noticed that everything you don't like ends up being self-contradicting. It must be awful for you running into self-contradictions everywhere you go.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:48 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:49 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:47 pm
I don't think we need to. It's pretty clear it makes no sense even now. It's self-contradicting.

Yes, I've noticed that everything you don't like ends up being self-contradicting. It must be awful for you running into self-contradictions everywhere you go.

If somebody wants to live under delusions that are clearly not even consistent on their own terms, they can do that.