Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:36 pm**

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:36 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:40 am
Constantine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:29 am I've been noticing massive parallels between Hitler and the Woke movement. Both do pogroms, intimidation, virtue signaling and are open to Socialism. Both are ethnic centric beliefs systems proclaiming a historically aggrieved status to one ethnic group, placing blame on the other, and scape goating it for current issues. Both demand repayment, either in blood, reparations or living space.
K: and which version of Mein Kampf have you read?
who translated it? we can talk after we know what you
have read....

Kropotkin
Whether Mein Kampf is a woke book or not, depends on the translation?? Does that make any sense at all??

It could, I suppose, but it just seemed like a delaying, I know more than you do, tactic. PK could simply have said what his translation is and taken a stand on the issue. Also I think the video comes closer to saying that at root Marx and Hitler are very close together. Woke is not Marxism though there are pieces in there. Marx was homophobic and also, I think, would have looked askance at some of the bourgeois facets of university wokeness. Whatever they say when blocking roads, much of the sexuality woke is very middle class priviledged capitalist content.

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:01 pm**

What video?

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:02 pm**

Constantine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:29 am I've been noticing massive parallels between Hitler and the Woke movement. Both do pogroms, intimidation, virtue signaling and are open to Socialism. Both are ethnic centric beliefs systems proclaiming a historically aggrieved status to one ethnic group, placing blame on the other, and scape goating it for current issues. Both demand repayment, either in blood, reparations or living space.

You are brain-dead.

Have you even read a single word of Mein Kampf?

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:51 pm**

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:36 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:40 am
Constantine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:29 am I've been noticing massive parallels between Hitler and the Woke movement. Both do pogroms, intimidation, virtue signaling and are open to Socialism. Both are ethnic centric beliefs systems proclaiming a historically aggrieved status to one ethnic group, placing blame on the other, and scape goating it for current issues. Both demand repayment, either in blood, reparations or living space.
K: and which version of Mein Kampf have you read?
who translated it? we can talk after we know what you
have read....

Kropotkin
Whether Mein Kampf is a woke book or not, depends on the translation?? Does that make any sense at all??

K: different translations can create an almost different book...
an example of this is St. Petersburg...by Biely
the copy I originally read portrayed the book differently
then the most recent translation..
the original book I read was St. Petersburg translated by
John Cournos in 1959... and the next version I read
was called "Petersburg'' (yes, even a different title)
translated by Robert A. Maguire and John E. Malmstad...
originally published in 1978 and republished in 2018...
in reading the two, it seems like a different book.. but
no, they are simple different translations...
the translation can impact a book to the point where it almost
becomes a different book....

and that is the point....

Kropotkin

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:44 pm**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:51 pm
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:36 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:40 am

K: and which version of Mein Kampf have you read?
who translated it? we can talk after we know what you
have read....

Kropotkin
Whether Mein Kampf is a woke book or not, depends on the translation?? Does that make any sense at all??
K: different translations can create an almost different book...
an example of this is St. Petersburg...by Biely
the copy I originally read portrayed the book differently
then the most recent translation..
the original book I read was St. Petersburg translated by
John Cournos in 1959... and the next version I read
was called "Petersburg'' (yes, even a different title)
translated by Robert A. Maguire and John E. Malmstad...
originally published in 1978 and republished in 2018...
in reading the two, it seems like a different book.. but
no, they are simple different translations...
the translation can impact a book to the point where it almost
becomes a different book....

and that is the point....

Kropotkin

Demonstrate that one translation can be interpreted as woke and another cannot be interpreted as woke.

Quote them side by side.

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:07 pm**

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:44 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:51 pm
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:36 pm Whether Mein Kampf is a woke book or not, depends on the translation?? Does that make any sense at all??
K: different translations can create an almost different book...
an example of this is St. Petersburg...by Biely
the copy I originally read portrayed the book differently
then the most recent translation..
the original book I read was St. Petersburg translated by
John Cournos in 1959... and the next version I read
was called "Petersburg'' (yes, even a different title)
translated by Robert A. Maguire and John E. Malmstad...
originally published in 1978 and republished in 2018...
in reading the two, it seems like a different book.. but
no, they are simple different translations...
the translation can impact a book to the point where it almost
becomes a different book....

and that is the point....

Kropotkin
Demonstrate that one translation can be interpreted as woke and another cannot be interpreted as woke.

Quote them side by side.

K: and once again, define 'WOKE", So we have some commonality
to our discussion....my definition of ''WOKE" has been
accused of being idiosyncratic... or of being peculiar or
individual... so, do you agree with Iwaana in their definition
of ''WOKE?" And if so, what part do you agree with?

the real problem lies in the fact that everyone defines
things rather differently... to make a conversation work,
we each have to define our terms to make them clear,
so that we can have a conversation about the same thing....

If I define 'WOKE" differently than you do, we aren't even
having the same conversation when talking about what
''WOKE" is...

Kropotkin

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:38 pm**

K: and once again, define 'WOKE", So we have some commonality
to our discussion....my definition of ''WOKE" has been
accused of being idiosyncratic... or of being peculiar or
individual... so, do you agree with Iwaana in their definition
of ''WOKE?" And if so, what part do you agree with?

the real problem lies in the fact that everyone defines
things rather differently... to make a conversation work,
we each have to define our terms to make them clear,
so that we can have a conversation about the same thing....

If I define 'WOKE" differently than you do, we aren't even
having the same conversation when talking about what
''WOKE" is...

Kropotkin

Use your own definition.

Show that one translation is woke according to your definition and another translation is not woke according to your definition.

I need not even be part of it in any way.

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:54 pm**

''The surrounding din went on:
''What is the truth?''
''The truth--the truth...?''
''I know....''
''If you know, get busy with your plate
and get busy with your plate and eat your fill..."

and this:

Around them was heard:
''What is Man?''
''Man is what he eats."
''I know.''
''Well, since you know, grab a plate and eat''''

the exact same paragraph in two different translations..

Kropotkin

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:07 pm**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:54 pm ''The surrounding din went on:
''What is the truth?''
''The truth--the truth...?''
''I know....''
''If you know, get busy with your plate
and get busy with your plate and eat your fill..."

and this:

Around them was heard:
''What is Man?''
''Man is what he eats."
''I know.''
''Well, since you know, grab a plate and eat''''

the exact same paragraph in two different translations..

Kropotkin

That's not Mein Kampf.

Just because a book can have two very different translations does not mean that a specific book has two very different translations.

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:11 pm**

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:38 pm
K: and once again, define 'WOKE", So we have some commonality
to our discussion....my definition of ''WOKE" has been
accused of being idiosyncratic... or of being peculiar or
individual... so, do you agree with Iwaana in their definition
of ''WOKE?" And if so, what part do you agree with?

the real problem lies in the fact that everyone defines
things rather differently... to make a conversation work,
we each have to define our terms to make them clear,
so that we can have a conversation about the same thing....

If I define 'WOKE" differently than you do, we aren't even
having the same conversation when talking about what
''WOKE" is...

Kropotkin
Use your own definition.

Show that one translation is woke according to your definition and another translation is not woke according to your definition.

I need not even be part of it in any way.

K: I did exactly as you asked... I showed one translation that is different
than another... as far as being 'WOKE" I've led it up to you to decide
which translation is the ''WOKE" one...

Kropotkin

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:31 pm**

That's intellectual dishonesty.

You know the discussion is about Mein Kampf but you use another book instead.

You make no reference to wokeness when making the comparison, although that was what was asked.

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:26 pm**

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:31 pm That's intellectual dishonesty.

You know the discussion is about Mein Kampf but you use another book instead.

You make no reference to wokeness when making the comparison, although that was what was asked.

K: a couple of points... I did exactly as you asked... you assumed
that I would be using Mein Kampf... and as far as being 'WOKE"
WE still haven't agreed to a common definition of ''WOKE"
so, it is rather irrelevant...in fact, as far as I can tell,
we have in this thread alone, three different, distinct
definitions of ''WOKE" and which one are we talking about?
who knows.... because again, I am the only one that
has clearly defined 'WOKE", as being aware of,
to be conscious of... it is not a practical application of
public policy or of actions taken, but about being
aware of something... as Kant has said, he
was awaken from his ''dogmatic slumbers" by Hume...
that is the definition of being "WOKE" to become
aware of.... now as I recall, you disagree... fine..
you have made it some sort of racial matter...
but if that is so, then what desantis has said,
that ''WOKE" is the most dangerous ideology in
America today is flat out wrong....

that women's rights and gay rights and black rights began
as a question of being 'WOKE", of becoming aware of
the injustice and inequality of rights in America...
but as mentioned, until we agree to what ''WOKE" means,
we have no point of agreement....and nothing to really
write about....as we are in disagreement with the very
words we use...

Kropotkin

Posted: **Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:50 am**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:26 pm
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:31 pm That's intellectual dishonesty.

You know the discussion is about Mein Kampf but you use another book instead.

You make no reference to wokeness when making the comparison, although that was what was asked.
K: a couple of points... I did exactly as you asked... you assumed
that I would be using Mein Kampf... and as far as being 'WOKE"
WE still haven't agreed to a common definition of ''WOKE"
so, it is rather irrelevant...

You're only supporting Phyllo's claim.
If you actually thought it was irrelevant, what the hell difffernce would it make which translation of Mein Kampf the other guy was reading?

Posted: **Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:56 am**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:26 pm that women's rights and gay rights and black rights began
as a question of being 'WOKE",

This is simply not the case. For example, feminism started long before the modern use of the term woke used. It is a fairly recent metaphor/slang term outside the black community. The term was appropriated from the black community and the meaning shifted. It was certainly related, but had to do with being geographically aware, and business/place aware, when moving through the US as a black person. Where it was safe and where not.

Kant did NOT use the term 'woke'. He talked about being awakened by something.
Woke in it's modern use is not the same and not the same part of speech and, well, in English. It's English language slang and has to do with a state of having certain beliefs and aware, for example of things like systemic racism.

of becoming aware of
the injustice and inequality of rights in America...
but as mentioned, until we agree to what ''WOKE" means,
we have no point of agreement....and nothing to really
write about....as we are in disagreement with the very
words we use...

How fucking convenient, since you will likely continue to hallucinate the meaning and history of the term. So, you won't agree so you won't ever feel any need to justify any of your assertions.

But of course it was very important to find out which translation...lol.

Posted: **Thu Jun 29, 2023 12:44 pm**

Just googled 'mein kampf extracts'. The real question is how anyone could possibly wade through that monumental dead-weight of incomprehensible pomposity. The literary equivalent of black pudding or a black hole. I refuse to believe that anyone here has read it. It's one of those books that people only pretend to have read--like Finnegan's Wake, the Bone People, or pretty much any Booker prize winner...

Philosophy Now Forum

Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?

Re: Is Mein Kampf the most Woke work ever?