Philosophy Now Forum

K: I am one individual, not ''many individuals" and where is
my freedom to declare that I am indeed a "ritz cracker"
or gay or trans or binary? it is always reducible to one
person, one state.... me.. and the state... and who
gets to decide my sexual orientation, my gender,
my own nature? me, the one or the state, the one?
If I don't get to decide my own gender or my own sexual
identity, then I don't have freedom of choice.. the state
has chosen for me... and once again, who is right and why?

For some reason, you want to reduce it to you and the state.

if the state can declare for you, your gender or
sexual identity, a basic fundamental right we have,
then the state can certainly tell you how many children
you can have, or what job you can hold or what beliefs
you can practice....
as far as how many children we can have, how did
that work out for the Chinese?

if I have no free will, no choice to be who I am, sexually
or in terms of gender, then I am in Nazi Germany...
how did that work out? for the Jews, not so good....
and that is the exact same path we take when
we deny people their choice as to gender or
their sexual identity....

Kropotkin

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:02 pm

K: I am one individual, not ''many individuals" and where is
my freedom to declare that I am indeed a "ritz cracker"
or gay or trans or binary? it is always reducible to one
person, one state.... me.. and the state... and who
gets to decide my sexual orientation, my gender,
my own nature? me, the one or the state, the one?
If I don't get to decide my own gender or my own sexual
identity, then I don't have freedom of choice.. the state
has chosen for me... and once again, who is right and why?

For some reason, you want to reduce it to you and the state.

K: and what other choice do I have? we have a state, we have
individuals within that state.. and as an individual within
that state, I must, MUST work out what it means to be
human, within what is possible for me, in terms of
gender or sexual identity...as some of my possible choices...
but I have to contend with a state that seems to be bound
and determine to deny me that choice... a society
that wants to deny me my sexual and gender choices...
(again, to be clear, I am not gay nor trans nor binary)
I am arguing for that viewpoint simple because
the path to tyranny lies in denying people their choices
and free will...If I don't protect them, the next objective
of the right, will be to remove my choices of being a liberal,
being a democrat... desantis has already said, he is going to
eliminate freedom of choice, free will by ending "WOKE"
which is to say, he wants to destroy liberalism in America...
my turn is next after they take away sexual rights
and gender choices...I fight for them because I am next...
simple self-preservation is at work here....

Kropotkin

K: and what other choice do I have? we have a state, we have
individuals within that state

Individual are not one thing. Even the state is not one thing.

a society
that wants to deny me my sexual and gender choices...

Bum fuck your buddies all you want.

Go into your bedroom and enjoy.

Why does everyone have to celebrate it?

Why dump it on kids who have no interest in it?

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:26 pm

a society
that wants to deny me my sexual and gender choices...

Bum fuck your buddies all you want.

Go into your bedroom and enjoy.

Why does everyone have to celebrate it?

Why dump it on kids who have no interest in it?

K: as a long time married man, 27 years and counting, why
do I have the right to enjoy being heterosexual and gays and
trans are denied the right, the same right that I have?

to force gays/trans into the bedroom is to force them to be
out of sight, and thus out of mind.....if I can kiss my wife in
public, why can't gays or trans do the same? and why must trans
people be refused medical service because they are trans?
the state of Florida has refused to offer gays/trans medical
service, (which is no different, then preventing women
from their own choice of having abortions or not)

it is linked up as a question of who chooses as to
my identity? the state or the individual in question?
if the individual is preventing from making a personal
choice as to their sexual orientation or to their gender,
then effectively, we have no choices in America today...
if we prevent some people from having choices, then we
are engaging in a dictatorship that can prevent anyone from
having any kind of choice....to only having one child,
to which god one can pray to, to which political identity
we have... or are allowed to have....the question of choice
is a meant for everyone or if it is denied to some, based
on what is desirable, then no one has freedom of choice..
if it is not for everyone, then it has been denied to
everyone... for who is to say, where the deniers of
freedom of choice will stop their attacks on my choices?
they will attack your freedom of choice by denying
your own personal choices...

where will it end?

Kropotkin

K: as a long time married man, 27 years and counting, why
do I have the right to enjoy being heterosexual and gays and
trans are denied the right, the same right that I have?

to force gays/trans into the bedroom is to force them to be
out of sight, and thus out of mind.....if I can kiss my wife in
public, why can't gays or trans do the same? and why must trans
people be refused medical service because they are trans?
the state of Florida has refused to offer gays/trans medical
service, (which is no different, then preventing women
from their own choice of having abortions or not)

Nobody wants to see you kissing your wife or fucking your wife in public. Nobody wants to celebrate it.

Nobody wants to pay for trans surgery.

we have no choices in America today...

You need to live in a fascist or commie utopia for a while, so that you would appreciate what you have.

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 4:33 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 4:26 pm OK, lets try this... let us say the state deems one to
be a ritz cracker... and I say, I am a human being,
who is right? does the state have the right to draft you
to fight its wars, even thou you don't give a shit either way?
you don't identify in a way that allows you to go to war for
a state that doesn't care about you at all?

the question goes both way.... who gets to identify people?

the state or the individual?

Kropotkin

FFS, you never reply to anything.

Because he's an arrogant prik, yet he expects everyone else to read his tedious rambling garbage. He's crap has been debunked over and over but it's like water off a duck's back.

There is no such thing as 'gender'. If someone thinks they 'identify' (or pretends to) as something other than what they are then they are fucked in the head and suffering from either a fetish or a delusional disorder.
The big losers in all of this insane shit are women. Men are laughing all the way to the bank in many cases, and in others have an endless supply of masturbation material and get to indulge their innate misogny and be applauded for it.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:33 pm
the right believes that the physical aspect of gender is the right
one,

whereas the gay/trans/cisgender/binary side of existence
would hold that gender is a mental construct..

False. Any transperson who wants hormone treatment and sex change surgery and surgery to make themselves more in accordance with the sex they were not born with
believes
that the physical is CENTRAL.

The THING is that no one gives a flying rat's arse WHAT people imagine they 'identify' as. It's personal. The problems only arose when these people started demanding that they be legally accepted as whatever it is that they feel they 'identify' as (which just happens to be mostly men 'indentifying' as women. Hmm. I wonder why...). When a man is legally a 'woman' then this gives him all kinds of access to places that were previously unavailable to him. You only have to google 'chestfeeding transwomen' or 'transwomen get periods' to see how dangerous and bat-shit insane this has all become. Every weirdo under the Sun has got on the bandwagon. Apparently it's 'insensitive' for pregnant women to mention their pregnancy around other people because there might be a 'transwoman' with pregnancy envy who gets 'offended'. Oh seriously. Just fuck off.
Wow, I would REALLY love to 'gift' the 'actual feeling' of full on contractions during a long and difficult labour to these misogynistic fetishists.
Now they are pushing to have the 'trans' removed so that they can be recognised as an 'actual biological women' (those non-men that they are yearning to displace and destroy).

ps. It would be 'interesting' to see what happens when someone who 'identifies' as a lion takes a casual stroll through a zoo lion enclosure..

I work in a leisure centre and for some time there has been talk about allowing transwomen to use the women's facilities, changing rooms, showers, toilets, that sort of thing. The staff were not happy about this and voted to go on strike. The issue was shelved when the pandemic hit, and we were closed for a few months. They were also planning to do other things, such as making all our uniforms unisex, and since then, the issue has been brought up a few times, but nothing has been done yet, thankfully.

Personally speaking, I found the whole idea horrendous, as it would effectively allow anyone to go anywhere they wanted, and I would certainly resign if they ever did it. I'm also pretty sure that most of the elderly clients I work with would also never come back, therefore being robbed of what, in many cases, is their only social interaction.

Which actually means '..allowing men to use the women's facilities..'.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:15 am Which actually means '..allowing men to use the women's facilities..'.

Effectively, yes.