Philosophy Now Forum

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 12:56 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 12:52 pmYou have already demonstrated that you are incredibly bad at understanding what other people think or say. That's why I asked if you are autistic. You have no basis for asserting that anyone else doesn't think about the future and indeed the entire notion is quite stupid, along with it's author (unless he has a disability in which case I guess he's doing great).

Incorrect, Autism implies that I'm clueless of your motivations, and greater social interactions.

I know exactly what you're doing though, that's the problem.

I made this thread...and what do you do? You make baseless accusations that "Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are pedophiles". Are they??? Probably not. You're deranged in conspiracy theory. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, they had sex with...a 16 year old girl trafficked from Ukraine. Okay, and? Does that suddenly negate all their progress? Does that mean that their space exploration isn't/wasn't important?


You have a small mind, Flash. You need to pop some brain-pills to keep up here. Let's see what you got...anything else?

Oh give it up you rancid bag of shite. You made a thread about going to space to.... "possibly, conquest over any alien peoples", you cannot expect such stupid shit to be taken seriously now you gimp.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 1:00 pmOh give it up you rancid bag of shite. You made a thread about going to space to.... "possibly, conquest over any alien peoples", you cannot expect such stupid shit to be taken seriously now you gimp.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 11:02 am This is why Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are at the helm of Humanity as of 2023AD. These are the top humans on the planet. Because nothing is Nobler, more important, more valuable, than broadening human horizons.

Elon Musk is not known for his modesty, and Neuralink, his move from rocketry into neurotechnology, is being presented with all his characteristic hype. Essentially, Neuralink is a relatively small flexible mat (described as the size of four dollar coins) into which 1,024 fine electrodes are woven. With the mat stitched into the brain, the electrodes are able to record the electrical signals from the groups of neurons with which they make contact. These signals, via a computer interface, might be able to drive prosthetic limbs or other external devices. But Musk’s claims go further, suggesting that in due course the device will be able to treat mental illness, read thoughts, and ultimately fuse a person’s consciousness with the power of the computer, a form of bio-artificial intelligence

The Tesla and SpaceX founder warned that a future where AI is smarter than us will be 'dangerous' and we must all become cyborgs to survive


Amazon's Jeff Bezos, wife, make $2.5 million donation for gay marriage
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... 1320120728

This means space research, exploration, travel, colonization, and possibly, conquest over any alien peoples.

But also for Bezos gay marriage and transhumanism. For Musk - transhumanism where AI and humans are merged and we are all cyborgs.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 12:17 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 11:50 amNot sure this is true.
As we type we are making the future, and everything we do is in the interests of what comes next to us.
We do not know the future so cannot types about it. Yet all we do the future is the silent partner to all our interests.
As for space conquest.

That is a croc of shite. And will never happen.
See me for more details.

Crocodiles got their shit sorted million of years ago, and the fat they are much the same as then, it a testament to their success.

It's true that everybody is moving 'forward' regardless of realizing it. The point I'm making is more about turning people's perspectives 'forward' as well. Instead, people squabble about relatively minor and miniscule problems. Simply look at the titles on this forum. These are the 'philosophical' matters du jour. How many of them really posit the future, 10 years from now, 100 years from now?

I'm not saying that these present problems aren't important or consequential. I am saying though, that the future is more important. In centuries past, Europeans had ideals of 'God' to orient them toward the Future. They made great Cathedrals. They wrote great stories and fables. They defended their lands, and explored new ones, in the context of something Greater-than-oneself. In the 20th Century, Americans had political nationalism, and the ideal of Country, which drove industry and inventions. But today? What is there today, without an ideal beyond oneself?

Christendom was not forwards looking. Cathederals were monuements to the past and their ideologies were sets of ideas engineered to preserve the past in the present. Christianity surpressed new ideas, and looked forewards only to destruction and rapture. Generations suffered and died in poverty to provide those cathederals to a sytem of government hell bent on the supression of change and the control of the people.

It's important that humanity, and large societies are driven by larger, nobler ideals, than one's selfish-self. Otherwise your or anybody's "Future" is boiled-down to hedonistic, decadent gains. How much money is in your bank account, how hot your wife is, how better your children are than your neighbors, your vanity above others'.

It's evident that that gets humanity nowhere.

That is humans being crocodiles, lounging in the swamp, forever. Purgatory.

Christians think they are stable and crocodile like, yet they have failed to survive into the present as they wished.
THe 1960s was a dcade of foward looking optimism, yet plagued by several terrible wars fought against poor and weak nations ,which prevailed often against the aggression of the rich and powerful.
Then we had faith in science, food science and the space race. That has all gone pearshaped and the vision of hotels on the moon by 2001 never came to pass because it was an idiotic dream. Food became bastardised, and led to an epidemic of diabetes and obesity. Heart disease and brain health also implicated food adulteration. And we are gradually desotrying the world through tpollution and climate change.
But there are still optimists goaded on by the pessimisim of potential disaster.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 11:58 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 11:50 am Not sure this is true.

In my world it's simply not true. I see people talking about, planning for, expecting things in relation to the future all the time. I am bombarded with information about the great (and terrible) things coming: new products, new technologies, smart cities, whatever. Politicians with plans and new laws and programs. Activists demanding that in the future we......[all sorts of stuff].

If you want to create an idiotic position, don't be subtle. Assert something inane: people only focus on the past. Don't justify your hallucination. Then rant based on it.

Crocodiles got their shit sorted million of years ago, and the fat they are much the same as then, it a testament to their success.

Now he'll say you admire crocodiles and have no human aspirations. Not saying you should care about his reactions, but it is feeding the troll.
Or perhaps...feeding the human crocodile.

The funny thing is Peter Kropotkin accuses Conservatives of wanting to go back to the past and also thinks no one thinks about the future enough.

One could only hope they end up in the same waterpool snapping at each other's tails.

We are currently in a situation of pessimism, but there are also those who are despite it all optimistic.
The converse can be said to be true according to perspective.
In my experience I have witnessed a world that has trasitioned from a deep optimism about the future made good through science, to a more sketpical outlook with impending global warming and the end diminished resources. Yet we have witnessed an unprecedented acceleration in digital and communications tehcnology that no one predicted, whilst the prediction of space exploration has proven a dead end.
People are looking to the future, just not the future we thought we be ahead of us. Only crazy people like Musk persist with idiot dreams of space. With some effort he might achive enough to take us forwards to 1969 if he burns lots of cash and effort (probably a few lives too, if he last "success" is anything to go by).
The future seems to be inwards, not outwards. The future is virtual.
Space is hostile and dangerous. Everything we have evolved to need is right here on earth and space has nothing to offer us, except empty space.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 3:36 pm Space is hostile and dangerous. Everything we have evolved to need is right here on earth and space has nothing to offer us, except empty space.

And yet life here has a hard-wired expiry date, one which we might be able to overcome if we figure out how to leave this solar system.

(Although even then, we'd still have an unavoidable expiry date, it would just be much later)

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 3:56 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 3:36 pm Space is hostile and dangerous. Everything we have evolved to need is right here on earth and space has nothing to offer us, except empty space.

And yet life here has a hard-wired expiry date, one which we might be able to overcome if we figure out how to leave this solar system.

(Although even then, we'd still have an unavoidable expiry date, it would just be much later)

No. We are more likely to figure that out is we stay - as if we had a choice.
All that space offers is is cold hard and breathless.

There is a reason why there is not a self sustaining colony on Antarctica. But it is a picnic compared to any where else in the solar system. And the prospect of another planet that does not immediately want to kill us would always be several lifetimes away.

We're guranteed to go extinct one way or another I guess, might as well be here.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 7:29 pm We're guranteed to go extinct one way or another I guess, might as well be here.

I imagine that just before the sun goes nova we'll have tried to build some colony ships, and have the tech to terraform somewhere. But it's always gonna be easier to build here until then.

Precisely ... I'm worried about one thing in particular ... happens ta me all the time ... going to a place and not remembering why I wanted to go there. Alzheimer's ... the curse of forgetfulness!

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 3:56 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 3:36 pm Space is hostile and dangerous. Everything we have evolved to need is right here on earth and space has nothing to offer us, except empty space.

Yes, that may be all "empty space" has to offer us, however, the trillions of planets suspended within that empty space are no doubt filled with infinite resources...

(e.g., minerals, metals, crystals, and exotic forms of stored energy, etc.)

...that our descendants could put to good use, sometime in the distant future.

And, of course, let's not forget about all of the slaves that humanity could possibly acquire after Wizard22's descendant's are successful in their conquest over any alien peoples.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 3:56 pm And yet life here has a hard-wired expiry date, one which we might be able to overcome if we figure out how to leave this solar system.

(Although even then, we'd still have an unavoidable expiry date, it would just be much later)

"We" (as in everyone on this planet at this very moment) aren't going to overcome anything.

I get what you're saying, in that you are speaking of humanity in general. However, it just struck me as to how meaningless it is to use the term "we" in the scenario you were describing, when, in fact, our own personal "expiry date" could be a mere hour from now.
_______

Agent Smith wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 8:02 pm Precisely ... I'm worried about one thing in particular ... happens ta me all the time ... going to a place and not remembering why I wanted to go there. Alzheimer's ... the curse of forgetfulness!

pot smoker?

seeds wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 8:12 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 3:56 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 3:36 pm Space is hostile and dangerous. Everything we have evolved to need is right here on earth and space has nothing to offer us, except empty space.

Yes, that may be all "empty space" has to offer us, however, the trillions of planets suspended within that empty space are no doubt filled with infinite resources...

All those "resources" are out of reach.
The nearest planet would take an unimaginable amount of energy to reach in less than a lifetime.

(e.g., minerals, metals, crystals, and exotic forms of stored energy, etc.)

We already know the table of elements. SO there is going to be no big surprises.

...that our descendants could put to good use, sometime in the distant future.

Never going to happen.

And, of course, let's not forget about all of the slaves that humanity could possibly acquire after Wizard22's descendant's are successful in their conquest over any alien peoples.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 3:56 pm And yet life here has a hard-wired expiry date, one which we might be able to overcome if we figure out how to leave this solar system.

(Although even then, we'd still have an unavoidable expiry date, it would just be much later)

"We" (as in everyone on this planet at this very moment) aren't going to overcome anything.

I get what you're saying, in that you are speaking of humanity in general. However, it just struck me as to how meaningless it is to use the term "we" in the scenario you were describing, when, in fact, our own personal "expiry date" could be a mere hour from now.
_______

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 11:02 am In almost all cultural content, discussion, argument, debate, political issue, religious issue, etc. nobody is looking forward into the future.

People seem to be affixed on the Past. A small section of people, are focused on the Present, which is an improvement. But almost nobody is looking to the future.

This is why these 'negative' values of freedom and liberty, Neo-Liberalism, is so prevalent. Everybody is fighting over what humanity should be "free from". But nobody is fighting, yet, over what humanity should be "free to" do.

This is why Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are at the helm of Humanity as of 2023AD. These are the top humans on the planet. Because nothing is Nobler, more important, more valuable, than broadening human horizons.

This means space research, exploration, travel, colonization, and possibly, conquest over any alien peoples.

Until a large brunt of humanity turns their minds and perspectives toward the Future, people will remain on Earth, squabbling for table scraps, for endless decades, centuries, and millenniums to come.

Most of humanity will stay as crocodiles and alligators, evolutionarily stagnant, sitting in a pool of mud for 10 thousand years to come, going nowhere, inspired by nothing, inspiring nothing.

In general, I agree with you on the above.
In the Ethical Theory section, the main theme all my posts are always focus on the moral progress of humanity in the future [next 50, 75, 100, 150 or > years].

At present, evolution wise all humans are more likely to be crocodilian-humans than being human-humans.
It was only relatively a short while ago, our ancestors were animals and thus the present Humans are being more animals than being more humans.
As such, it is the present default, as being more animal, all humans are programmed to focus their attention on the past rather than the future; this is most effective to facilitate survival and preservation of the species.

It is also a natural evolutionary default that a certain small % [say less than 1%] of humans are programmed [with mutations] to deviate from the norm to explore and think [philosophize] about of the greater threats in the future. It is this small % who unknowingly has to face greater risks of fatalities; this is so evident with the adventurous who deviated from the norms.

Since we are philosophizing in a Philosophy Forum, we should be thinking [into the future] and differently from the common vulgar people who are stuck with past.

But unfortunately, 90% of the posters here are very dogmatic in sticking to what they are naturally programmed with, i.e. stuck with the past and the norm.
This is why they are dogmatic with philosophical realism, [the evolutionary default] i.e. reality is mind-independent and many get very nasty [will even kill oppositions] when faced with disagreements.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 3:56 pm

Just wanted to draw your attention to the context in which VA sees himself. The original post is two posts above this one.

At present, evolution wise all humans are more likely to be crocodilian-humans than being human-humans.
It was only relatively a short while ago, our ancestors were animals and thus the present Humans are being more animals than being more humans.
As such, it is the present default, as being more animal, all humans are programmed to focus their attention on the past rather than the future; this is most effective to facilitate survival and preservation of the species.

So many humorous things in here.
1) Why crocodilian-humans? Why not primate humans? Mammalian-humans?
2) Given that the scientific FSK is the most credible and reliable according to VA, why does he not agree with it that homo sapians are primates and animals?
3) Where does he get this idea that animals focus their attention on the past? Generally animals focus on the present and near future: the latter, for example, when hunting. What is his evidence that animals focus their attention on the past?

Then comes this...

It is also a natural evolutionary default that a certain small % [say less than 1%] of humans are programmed [with mutations] to deviate from the norm to explore and think [philosophize] about of the greater threats in the future. It is this small % who unknowingly has to face greater risks of fatalities; this is so evident with the adventurous who deviated from the norms.

1) Where did he get his <1% figure? Does it come from the scientific FSK? if so perhaps he could link to research.
2) It seems he considers himself to have a genetic mutation programming himself to explore and philosophize about the greater threats of the future. How did he determine this? Was it via the scientific FSK? Was it through the sociology FSK that he found the <1% claim?
3) He implies that he and his fellow mutants are at greater risk of fatality because the adventurous who deviated from norms have been so evidently at greater risk. What is all this based on? Which FSK?

And now the kicker.....

But unfortunately, 90% of the posters here are very dogmatic in sticking to what they are naturally programmed with, i.e. stuck with the past and the norm.
This is why they are dogmatic with philosophical realism, [the evolutionary default] i.e. reality is mind-independent and many get very nasty [will even kill oppositions] when faced with disagreements.

VA is actually saying here that his life is in danger from other posters here. Now to be fair, English is not his first language. He may not realize that his wording means that posters here are a threat to his life. He may simply have meant that realists in general are a threat to his life and the lives of other antirealists.

If you know VA's history, this means that VA is viewing realists like he has in the past viewed Muslims.

VA is actually saying here that his life is in danger from other posters here. Now to be fair, English is not his first language. He may not realize that his wording means that posters here are a threat to his life. He may simply have meant that realists in general are a threat to his life and the lives of other antirealists.

If you know VA's history, this means that VA is viewing realists like he has in the past viewed Muslims.