Philosophy Now Forum

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 5:17 pm as I am not writing a full-blown book on capitalism
but I am exploring aspects of the impact that
capitalism has on you, me and everyone...
thus there are large swathes of capitalism that I am
not engaged with.. for instance, the effects of taxes on
capitalism... I am not interested in that particular
aspect of how capitalism impacts us...

I am interested in how capitalism impacts us, and impacts us negatively
and in doing so, damages us... physically, emotionally,
psychologically.... that is my particular interest in this topic...

and as this topic as yet received any confirmation as to its
validity, that capitalism damages us in a myriad of ways,
we cannot even begin to come up with a solution to
a problem that we can't even agree to being a problem....
we need to agree there is a problem before we seek out
solutions...Iwanna wants solutions to a problem in which
he hasn't even agreed to be a problem...

that is the first step.. agreement that there is a problem and
the problem is X, Y, Z...and once we agree that there is a problem
and the problem is X, Y, Z... and then and only then, can we
seek out solutions...

and no matter what I write, according to some around here,
I will never be right, thus there will never be an agreement
as to any type of solution... recognition as to whither
there is a problem is only the first step to finding a solution...
we have to agree that there is a problem and the problem is
this...... and then we can seek out solutions....

order matters...

K: so the next aspect of the "problem of capitalism" is
in its workers.... we workers are, as noted, simple
there as long as we create profits, once we fail
to produce profits, we are gone... profits before people...
but there is another aspect of capitalism that needs to
be mentioned... that of work itself....

work is demeaning, dehumanizing...I work in a ''factory lite'' job,
where I scan items or type in item codes all day long.. I am a
checker in a grocery store... and by doing so, I engage with
factory workers in doing the same work every day...
I might code in corn and scan in can's and weigh bananas...
but that is the extent of my work.. I am either putting in the code,
scanning in can's, bread, anything with a bar code, or I am weighing bananas
or apples...none of which requires much thought... as I have mentioned
before, If they ever train monkeys to give out change, I am out of a job...

this type of work is devaluing of who I am.... I am not allowed to
engaged in human values, like hope, love, peace or justice.. as they
are irrelevant to my job... I am stripped of my own dignity, of my identity,
by being forced to dress in a certain way, to talk in a certain way,
to stand in a certain place, to follow procedures no matter what...
and the failure of following said procedures is to be fired...

we are timed as to how long we check out any given customer,
how long we are on break, how many bananas we code in and
how we code in those bananas.. failure to do it right is worth a
write up, at least... I am supposed to scan the bar code on bananas
and not type in the number.. which 4011... and organic is 94011..
and if I type that in, instead of scanning the bar code, it is noticed
and commented on by management...

If I am standing around and not cleaning, It is noted and comments
are made about it by management... if I bring a soft drink into
the check stand, it is noticed and commented on by management
and loss prevention... who dominate our store and business....
they are all powerful and can fire anyone at any time...
the more customers steal, the more loss prevention focuses on
us...whenever I am in a checkstand, I have 13 camaras on me...
and in self checkout, I have 15 camaras on me...
and I don't feel one iota safer... less so in fact because
those camaras are not for my protection, but for the store
protection against me.. to prevent me from stealing...
and these are some of the factors that devalue me, dehumanizes
me in my job....
the fact that management actively hates me and would love
to get rid of me because I have been there a long time and I
get a higher wage then newcomers.. and removing me, it allows
the store and the store management to replace me with cheaper
workers... this allows the store manager to make his bonus..
to work harder with less employees is the goal and is rewarded
by bonuses to store managers... managers who manage according
to their bonus is one of the evil aspects of my job... all aspects
of the store is done based on how much bonus the store manager gets...
but it makes a profit and that is all upper management wants....
make a profit and you stay, includes even store managers...

I have no value outside of making the company profits...
that is my only value according to the company... I have
no other value and that dehumanizes and devalues me,
as a human being....

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 6:24 pm
I have no value outside of making the company profits...
that is my only value according to the company... I have
no other value and that dehumanizes and devalues me,
as a human being....

Kropotkin

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 6:46 pm Peter, which industries should be owned by the public?
[/quote/]

K: and once again, asking for solutions before agreeing to
the problem... what is the general problem/problems and then
we can work out the solutions...

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 7:16 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 6:46 pm Peter, which industries should be owned by the public?
[/quote/]

K: and once again, asking for solutions before agreeing to
the problem... what is the general problem/problems and then
we can work out the solutions...

Kropotkin

The problem with capitalism is that the workers get too small a share of the profits.

Industries and resources that should be publicly owned are energy utilities, land, oceans, transport networks, water and drainage, air quality , health provision, education, housing, national insurance, social care, prisons, police, extraction of minerals, national defense.

Democracy is of paramount importance, as public ownership may otherwise slide into ownership by an elite.

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 7:43 pm
The problem with capitalism is that the workers get too small a share of the profits.

Industries and resources that should be publicly owned are energy utilities, land, oceans, transport networks, water and drainage, air quality , health provision, education, housing, national insurance, social care, prisons, police, extraction of minerals, national defense.

Democracy is of paramount importance, as public ownership may otherwise slide into ownership by an elite.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 6:24 pm Iwanna wants solutions to a problem in which
he hasn't even agreed to be a problem...

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 7:43 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 7:16 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 6:46 pm Peter, which industries should be owned by the public?
[/quote/]

K: and once again, asking for solutions before agreeing to
the problem... what is the general problem/problems and then
we can work out the solutions...

Kropotkin

The problem with capitalism is that the workers get too small a share of the profits.

Industries and resources that should be publicly owned are energy utilities, land, oceans, transport networks, water and drainage, air quality , health provision, education, housing, national insurance, social care, prisons, police, extraction of minerals, national defense.

Democracy is of paramount importance, as public ownership may otherwise slide into ownership by an elite.

K: and that is certainly part of the problem and answer, but
there are other aspects to this... and in no particular order,
we have alienation of the workers, having no voice in their
work situation, being forced into capitalism with no other
choice being available, having very few choices within capitalism
for example, we have only 6 companies own 95% of all the media
in America, and we have only 6 companies making cereal for example,
and all our other ''choices" in the marketplace are really dominated
by a very small group of companies.. for example, cars, TV sets,
bread.. as a small example of a suppose free choice of the market
in which only a small number of companies actually own most of the
products for sale....
we lack democracy within capitalism as you have pointed out..
and we have limited choices in banks, wall street, finances...

part of the answer lays in the creation of more companies that
are not public, but are employee owned.. that is certainly part
of the solution.... employee owned companies are not as driven
by the profit motive as private companies...if you use and abuse
a employee, you are using and abusing a part owner.. that makes
a difference....they have a greater say in how the company is run
and a greater say in how "driven'' the company is toward profits...
which leads to which is the all encompassing drive for profits
leading us to devaluing employees in favor of profits..

we need to also deemphasize aspects of our modern society such as
our need for money/fame/power/material possessions.. what is
important is not how much money one has or how many houses
one has or how much fame, but to a belief that our way of life
is far more important than any wealth or material possessions...
to return balance to the work/leisure aspect of existence...
perhaps a 4 day work week will aid in returning to that balance..
or a 30 or 35 hour work week... solutions can be found....
if we return to a balance work week...

if we agree to what the problem/problems are, we
can then work out solutions....

Kropotkin