Philosophy Now Forum

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 4:51 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 4:45 pm Skeptic is the guy voted most likely to shoot himself in the foot.

Seems like a fair trade-off, given how I've stopped two attempts on my life so far

How many guns did they have? I bet you feel like an American hero.

$$-MONEY-$$

7 countries with some of the highest handgun manufacturing and sales:

United States - The US is the largest producer and consumer of handguns in the world, with an estimated 393 million firearms in circulation in 2021.
The US is the largest producer of handguns in the world, with many companies producing firearms, including Smith & Wesson, Ruger, and Sig Sauer. In 2020, there were over 10 million firearms manufactured in the US, but it's unclear how many of those were specifically handguns

Brazil - Brazil has a significant domestic market for handguns and is also a major exporter of small arms, including handguns.

Italy - Italy has a long tradition of gun making and is a major producer of high-end handguns, with companies such as Beretta and Benelli.

Germany - Germany is a major producer of handguns, with companies such as Heckler & Koch and Walther.

Austria - Austria is home to the Glock pistol, one of the most popular handguns in the world, and also has other notable gun manufacturers such as Steyr.

Turkey - Turkey has a significant domestic market for handguns and is also a major exporter of small arms, including handguns.

Russia - Russia is a major producer of handguns, with companies such as Izhevsk and Tula Arms Plant, and also exports handguns to other countries.

I suppose what we want happens only in Mexico and the irony is what we got also happens only in Mexico. My hunch we're not looking at the issue in the right way. We haven't yet learnt ta use our eyes well. I would like ta submit the first line in my post for a closer look. I hope the reader's mind can pull up the right files. I haven't flown in a while. I wanna keep it that way.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:37 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:34 pm How should we weigh 1 gun death against a magnitude of gun non-deaths?

You shouldn’t even weigh them.

Gun deaths in self defence are desirable.
Gun deaths in murders aren’t.

Non-gun deaths in self defence are desirable.
Non-gun deaths in murder aren’t.

This obsession with the tool is so peculiar. Tools multiply intent and cability - that's all.

Please note: non-gun deaths are not the same as gun non-deaths.

Impenitent wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 5:53 pm https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/motor-ve ... index.html

32000 unarmed people are killed every year by automobiles, not to mention the 2,000,000 that are injured!!

ban cars now!!!

-Imp

How many of those 'killings' were done on 'purpose' compared to 'accidents'?

commonsense wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 11:21 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:37 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:34 pm How should we weigh 1 gun death against a magnitude of gun non-deaths?

You shouldn’t even weigh them.

Gun deaths in self defence are desirable.
Gun deaths in murders aren’t.

Non-gun deaths in self defence are desirable.
Non-gun deaths in murder aren’t.

This obsession with the tool is so peculiar. Tools multiply intent and cability - that's all.

Please note: non-gun deaths are not the same as gun non-deaths.

Same difference.

You shouldn't weigh them against each other without context.

A gun death (of an attempted murderer) and a gun non-death (of the attempted murder victim) are both wins for gun ownership.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:59 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 4:51 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 4:45 pm Skeptic is the guy voted most likely to shoot himself in the foot.

Seems like a fair trade-off, given how I've stopped two attempts on my life so far

How many guns did they have? I bet you feel like an American hero.

Fuck heroism - I am just a dude going about his life.

Think of a gun as a tool of persuasion. It works much better than arguments and rhetoric at making people stop doing whatever it is they are doing.

This is a scientifically verifiable fact.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:51 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:59 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 4:51 pm
Seems like a fair trade-off, given how I've stopped two attempts on my life so far

How many guns did they have? I bet you feel like an American hero.

Fuck heroism - I am just a dude going about his life.

Think of a gun as a tool of persuasion. It works much better than arguments and rhetoric at making people stop doing whatever it is they are doing.

This is a scientifically verifiable fact.

Oh clearly.

Since the start of this year 10,124 people in the USA have been persuaded to never answer a question again...ever.

Fuck you're smart.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:58 am Oh clearly.

Since the start of this year 10,124 people in the USA have been persuaded to never answer a question again...ever.

Fuck you're smart.

Now imagine what that number would've been in a world with swords instead of guns...

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:11 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:58 am Oh clearly.

Since the start of this year 10,124 people in the USA have been persuaded to never answer a question again...ever.

Fuck you're smart.

Now imagine what that number would've been without guns...

trends.png

Homicide? What is that...an NRA stat shitfest no doubt!!

"Long-term homicide rates across Western Europe 1250 to 2020"

Oooo nooo - 70 people per 100,000 people died (nothing to do with guns btw) back when everyone was a kunt (wars not homicide) to present.

Now Skeppy put things into TRUE stat perspective...provide a graph of the USA deaths by guns since 1700 to present in relation to percentage of guns per population for those years.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:22 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:11 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:58 am Oh clearly.

Since the start of this year 10,124 people in the USA have been persuaded to never answer a question again...ever.

Fuck you're smart.

Now imagine what that number would've been without guns...

trends.png

Homicide? What is that...an NRA stat shitfest no doubt!!

"Long-term homicide rates across Western Europe 1250 to 2020"

Oooo nooo - 70 people per 100,000 people died (nothing to do with guns btw) back when everyone was a kunt (homicide) to present.

Now Skeppy put things into TRUE stat perspective...provide a graph of the USA deaths by guns since 1700 to present in relation to percentage of guns per population for those years.

There is no such thing as "death by gun". Guns have no causal power.

Guns are used by humans in the commission of crimes. That's called a modus operandi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_operandi

But you know what else is used in the commission of crimes? Logic. Mathematics. Science. Philosophy. Computers.

Wanna ban those?

ffs. ..and to think I respected U as 1 USAdian with a semblance of rational intelligence.

Guns have no causal affect on society..if only I could lmao.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:22 am Now Skeppy put things into TRUE stat perspective...provide a graph of the USA deaths by guns since 1700 to present in relation to percentage of guns per population for those years.

That would be a really stupid graph and a really vicious tautology.

I don't really care whether 100% of deaths are "gun deaths"; or "knife deaths"; or "baseball bat deaths" if the murder rate halves as gun, knife and baseball bat ownership increases..

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:35 am ffs. ..and to think I respected U as 1 USAdian with a semblance of rational intelligence.

Guns have no causal affect on society..if only I could lmao.

Indeed - if only you could.

There's a gun on me right now and about 15 others in the safe.

When should I expect them to turn me into a murderer?
When should I expect them to murder me?

The social dynamics of firearms (or any tool) is the amplification of intent. Some intents should be amplified. Some intents shouldn't be amplified. That's not about guns - it's about people.

Entire social institutions and societies can be hijacked to aimplify the intentions of demagogues to the point of genocide. Shall we ban all of society too?

Philosophies are politicized and used to justify attrocities. Shall we ban philosophy?

Quantitative models are used by Wall Street to fuck over entire nations. Shall we ban Mathematics and computation?

Your fixation on the tool instead of the tool-users is idiotic.

P.S I am not from the USA.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:39 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:22 am Now Skeppy put things into TRUE stat perspective...provide a graph of the USA deaths by guns since 1700 to present in relation to percentage of guns per population for those years.

That would be a really stupid graph and a really vicious tautology.

I don't really care whether 100% of deaths are "gun deaths"; or "knife deaths"; or "baseball bat deaths" if the murder rate halves as gun, knife and baseball bat ownership increases..

So it's simple. (and yes it would be stupid of you to provide the graph in an attempt to support your argument)

Show where the rates of murder halve where ownership of dangerous weapons increases. DUH!

Indeed since we are talking about guns, provide the graph that shows a reduction in murder rates where a populous has more access to weapons!!

btw. Guns are > 90% for killing. So Y ban cars, maths, compootation which wern't created JUST for killing. (IDIOT).