Philosophy Now Forum

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:49 am

dattaswami wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:22 am

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:09 amI don't think that makes any sense. You believe in God because it is one probability? Equal to all the others? How many others are there? If there are two other probabilities (I think you mean possibilities) then there is, if your probability theory is correct, a 33% chance there is a God. Is that what you are saying, that there is a 33% of God or less?

Either GOd exists or not exists. The probability is 50:50%. How it can be 33.33%. If you flip the coin, probability of head or tail is 50:50%. Is it not?

So, in your earlier post you said that scientists cannot rule out the existence of God. Then you said that God was probable. Then you said that you had proven that God exists. All based on this 50/50 argument.

OK.
Dattaswami is either a narcissist or a good man.
So, there is a 50% chance he is a narcissist. Have I proven that he is a narcissist?

Such argument is not valid. Datta Swami can be a lalit or Brahmin or muslim or hindu or an atheist or a scientists etc. This probability is certainly below 50%. But existence and non-existence of an item has only 2 probability that is either it exists or not exist. Hence the probability of existence of God is 50% same as His non-existence which is also 50%.!

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:49 am
Your argument does not show there is a 50% chance there is a god, especially the one you believe in and describe.
50% does not make God's existence probable. Probable is more than 50%.
50% does not prove God's existence, which you ended up claiming you had proven.

When God is unimaginable there cannot be more than one item, because there cannot be more than one unimaginable item. Imaginable items are so many. But in the case of GOd, He is unimaginable and beyond space. Thus applying to this single GOd (who is not multi) the probability of existence or non-existence is 50%.

dattaswami wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:54 am

When God is unimaginable there cannot be more than one item, because there cannot be more than one unimaginable item.

So are you saying that you can't imagine more than one unimaginable item?

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:08 am

dattaswami wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:54 am

When God is unimaginable there cannot be more than one item, because there cannot be more than one unimaginable item.

So are you saying that you can't imagine more than one unimaginable item?

Yes now you catch the point!! There cannot be more than 1 unimaginable items. All the imaginable items are defined by space and time. But unimaginable items cannot be!!!

dattaswami wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:17 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:08 am
So are you saying that you can't imagine more than one unimaginable item?

Yes now you catch the point!! There cannot be more than 1 unimaginable items. All the imaginable items are defined by space and time. But unimaginable items cannot be!!!

Okay, so God is the one and only unimaginable item, so you can't imagine any other unimaginable items, which means they must also be unimaginable, thus increasing the number of unimaninable items.

And I'm afraid I have another little bombshell for you, Datta: I was thinking about God earlier, and I inadvertently imagined him.

I didn't intend to do it, it just happened. Sorry.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:26 pm And I'm afraid I have another little bombshell for you, Datta: I was thinking about God earlier, and I inadvertently imagined him.

I didn't intend to do it, it just happened. Sorry.

When God do not possess any spatial coordinates you cannot imagine Him even if you imagine Him for millions of years! That is why He is called unimaginable. He is beyond space. You can imagine a statue, you can imagine a human being, you can imagine formless air, you can imagine space, etc but you cannot imagine God!!

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:26 pm And I'm afraid I have another little bombshell for you, Datta: I was thinking about God earlier, and I inadvertently imagined him.

I didn't intend to do it, it just happened. Sorry.

You can imagine a mediated God that is when God enters a medium you can see God by seeing that medium, just like current entering in a wire and by touching the wire you will get the shock..

dattaswami wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:07 pm
When God do not possess any spatial coordinates you cannot imagine Him even if you imagine Him for millions of years! That is why He is called unimaginable. He is beyond space. You can imagine a statue, you can imagine a human being, you can imagine formless air, you can imagine space, etc but you cannot imagine God!!

I wonder what I did imagine, then.

dattaswami wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:54 am

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:49 am
Your argument does not show there is a 50% chance there is a god, especially the one you believe in and describe.
50% does not make God's existence probable. Probable is more than 50%.
50% does not prove God's existence, which you ended up claiming you had proven.

When God is unimaginable there cannot be more than one item, because there cannot be more than one unimaginable item. Imaginable items are so many. But in the case of GOd, He is unimaginable and beyond space. Thus applying to this single GOd (who is not multi) the probability of existence or non-existence is 50%.

Well...
1) that only partially responds to my post - you don't explain, here, how coming up with 50% chance there is a God means you have proven God exists as you claimed.
2) You just described your version of God. Perhaps the polytheists are correct about God. What percentage do we assign to their version of the deities?

dattaswami wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:52 am Such argument is not valid. Datta Swami can be a lalit or Brahmin or muslim or hindu or an atheist or a scientists etc. This probability is certainly below 50%. But existence and non-existence of an item has only 2 probability that is either it exists or not exist. Hence the probability of existence of God is 50% same as His non-existence which is also 50%.!

That's incorrect and again I encourage you to speak with one of your followers who is an expert in such things.
But 1) this means that there is a 50% chance that there is a planet in the universe where all the creatures living there look like Donald Trump. It exists or it doesn't.
2) IT could be many different entities. It could be how you imagine God with Karma organized the way you think it is, who has the attitudes you think this deity does. Or it could be Zeus. Or it could be an evil demon that created this universe. Or.....
and so on. All these possibilities cannot be 50%.

Now you want to say but God is unimaginable adn beyond space and there can only be one of those. Well, that's another set of assertions with probabilities so far not justified. Perhaps God is partially imaginable. Perhaps God is unimaginable, beyond space and does not care about what it created. IOW there are many possible versions and you telling us, based on nothing, that God is unimaginable and beyond space, without any evidence to this, does not give us a foundation to make estimates.
And in perfect parallel to what you say here...

Datta Swami can be a lalit or Brahmin or muslim or hindu or an atheist or a scientists etc.

God could be a variety of 'things' all unimaginable Allah or Krishna, Zeus or the Great Spirit, it could be a dual God that is truly two deities, one male the other female, it could be an entity that cares about us or another who does not, it could be a computer simulation in a vastly superior species computer, it could be the type of God in deism or one that has the emotions and tantrums of Yahweh, it could be like the Buddha and believe there are no souls (anatma) or it could be a God that is all immanent and reincarnates in pieces that persist. And then you have there is no God. And then you have there was a God, but it decided it no longer wanted to live and disappeared.

And if you think, 'wait, those don't fit my conception of God,' that may well be....
What are the percentages chances that YOU are incorrect about part of this or all of it.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:08 am

dattaswami wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:54 am

When God is unimaginable there cannot be more than one item, because there cannot be more than one unimaginable item.

So are you saying that you can't imagine more than one unimaginable item?

Or to fussily focus this question...
So, are you saying that there can't be more than one unimaginable possibility?

dattaswami wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:07 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:26 pm And I'm afraid I have another little bombshell for you, Datta: I was thinking about God earlier, and I inadvertently imagined him.

I didn't intend to do it, it just happened. Sorry.

When God do not possess any spatial coordinates you cannot imagine Him even if you imagine Him for millions of years! That is why He is called unimaginable. He is beyond space. You can imagine a statue, you can imagine a human being, you can imagine formless air, you can imagine space, etc but you cannot imagine God!!

Then how would you possibly know how this being organizes Karma? and how one can be closer to God? Or that Jesus was an incarnation of God?
Can you not see that you are telling us ALL SORTS OF THINGS ABOUT GOD (including that God is beyond space) while at the same time telling us this God cannot be imagined.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:12 pm

dattaswami wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:07 pm
When God do not possess any spatial coordinates you cannot imagine Him even if you imagine Him for millions of years! That is why He is called unimaginable. He is beyond space. You can imagine a statue, you can imagine a human being, you can imagine formless air, you can imagine space, etc but you cannot imagine God!!

I wonder what I did imagine, then.

You imagined an item having spatial dimensions only hence it is not God.!!

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:28 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:08 am

dattaswami wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:54 am

When God is unimaginable there cannot be more than one item, because there cannot be more than one unimaginable item.

So are you saying that you can't imagine more than one unimaginable item?

Or to fussily focus this question...
So, are you saying that there can't be more than one unimaginable possibility?

Yes that is my entire philosohpy that God is unimaginable and there cannot be more than 1 unimaginable!!!!!! Hence God is one only....He exists...