Philosophy Now Forum

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:30 pm As I have noted before, Telos is one's goal or purpose...

And look at your life today, what is your life telos?

If you work, as I have done for 45 years, what is the goal or endpoint of
working? If you work to gain wealth or material goods or titles or power,
you have wasted your life... Those goals have no point, they are as transient
as the air you breath every day.....I have had wealth and I have had my
15 minutes of fame and I have had titles and even a modest amount of
power and nothing is more fleeting then wealth or titles or fame or power...
and those ephemeral things last for a short time and then disappear..

but ask yourself, what can last longer than a day?
If we remove those things that are transient, of short duration,
what is left? I suggest something radical in this materialistic age...

seek that which is more permanent than just material goods...
and Kropotkin, what might that be?

Why dear reader, seek the improvement of the soul, or intellect or seek
the rarest element in the universe? Wisdom... much more than money
or power or fame or material goods, wisdom can hold us all through our
lives... wisdom can't ever be lost or taken or misplaced... it will last us
long after wealth or material goods or fame or titles are gone..

Even a lifelong pursuit of the "good" is far better than a temporary
reaching of the baubles of existence.. that which is short lived...

Ok, Kropotkin, how do I achieve the goal of wisdom, or improvement of
my soul? That first comes with the recognition of the worthlessness of
our need for material goods.... they are just baubles that mean nothing..

and then just work out what is truly important in our lives..
in other words, we have to work out what is actually valuable
in our existence.... and I say, it isn't the material good we so fancy
these days...but what is it?

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:30 pm Why dear reader, seek the improvement of the soul, or intellect or seek
the rarest element in the universe? Wisdom...

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:30 pm..much more than money

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:30 pm..or power or fame or material goods, wisdom can hold us all through our
lives... wisdom can't ever be lost or taken or misplaced... it will last us
long after wealth or material goods or fame or titles are gone..

Even a lifelong pursuit of the "good" is far better than a temporary
reaching of the baubles of existence.. that which is short lived...

Ok, Kropotkin, how do I achieve the goal of wisdom, or improvement of
my soul?

Peter Kropotkin wrote:That first comes with the recognition of the worthlessness of
our need for material goods.... they are just baubles that mean nothing..

and then just work out what is truly important in our lives..
in other words, we have to work out what is actually valuable
in our existence.... and I say, it isn't the material good we so fancy
these days...but what is it?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:45 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:30 pm...

So Peter where art thou? Is this thread getting too difficult to address now?

K: not at all.. I just have a very limited amount of time to come here...

consciousness, soul, wisdom, are three sides to the same question...
and connected to this question is instincts... we see in animals,
instincts, which allows them to not need wisdom, or consciousness or
soul... instinct guides animal behaviors...and to a great deal,
also human behavior.... the fight or flight instinct is just one example,
of instinct in human brings... as is sex and hate and the bodily and
psychological needs of human beings...

we are programed to respond to our environment, as animals are
and that programming is instinct.. if you are hungry, you are programmed
to seek food.... seeking love, safety, happiness, esteem.. are all part
of the human programming.. implanted into us by nature, as instincts...
that consciousness, soul, wisdom are means of overcoming the programming
of instincts...

it is one of the great failures of the theory of evolution,
that it hasn't been able to explain consciousness/ soul/wisdom
via evolutionary theories...

this question of consciousness is as important question we face as human beings.
as we might be able to equate consciousness to the soul... and what might be
a simple understanding of consciousness?

That of awareness.. we are aware and that might be enough to say
that awareness and consciousness, might be the same thing...

I am aware of my environment, I am conscious of my environment..
those two statements mean the same thing...
and how do we connect wisdom into consciousness and awareness?

I see a dog growling at me.. I am aware of a growling dog,
I am conscious of a growling dog.. what wisdom would be
is an understanding/awareness of the consequences
or possibilities of a growling dog..... that dog might attack me
is a wisdom or a greater awareness of what a growling dog might
do.... which is why wisdom is connected to experience.. from
experience can come the wisdom to know what any given situation
might be and what are the possible consequences of any situation...

wisdom might said to be an understanding of possible consequences...

and what might a ''soul'' be? a possible method or creation of
of a means of understanding possible consequences.. in other
words, a soul is just a method to debate consequences within our
own head... for example, the question of right and wrong,
good vs evil, revolves around this question of consequences...
what are my consequences for acting "bad" or "evil"?

That is what a soul does...engages in thinking about the
consequences of actions.. which is why we call
wondering about consequences, wisdom...

do animals wonder about the consequences of their actions?
and do psychopaths like IQ45 ever think about the consequences
of their actions? or even care about the damages of their own
actions? a psychopath like IQ45 doesn't care about who is hurt in
own personal vendetta or in his personal quest to achieve his
own goals...there is nothing outside of their own needs...

and this complete lack of wisdom, or being aware outside
of one's needs is a shorthand version of a GOP/MAGA person...

I am aware that others outside of myself, who have needs and wants
and that awareness is what makes me a liberal.. and makes
me wise or to hold wisdom.... I am able to envision other people
with my needs, wants, desires and I can see how helping
others finding their needs and wants, also helps me
and therefore, I have wisdom or awareness of others...

or said another way, we find our humanness in others...
to become human requires us to become aware of others...

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:30 pm

attofishpi wrote:
So Peter where art thou? Is this thread getting too difficult to address now?

not at all.. I just have a very limited amount of time to come here...

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:15 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:30 pm

attofishpi wrote:
So Peter where art thou? Is this thread getting too difficult to address now?

not at all.. I just have a very limited amount of time to come here...

Oh.

So you are not limited in time to spew your crap all over the forum...just limited in time to address reasonable questions about your vomit?

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 3:09 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:15 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:30 pm
not at all.. I just have a very limited amount of time to come here...

Oh.

So you are not limited in time to spew your crap all over the forum...just limited in time to address reasonable questions about your vomit?

K: I am sorry you are unable to understand my post...I see how being
unable to understand this post is frustrating and leads to your anger...

Kropotkin