Philosophy Now Forum

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:25 pm Woke: alert to injustice, especially racism.
"We need to stay angry and stay woke"
is one definition offered by my handy-dandy dictionary...

Being "Woke" has clearly expanded beyond just Racism..
Being "Woke" is about being alert to injustice in whatever form
that injustice might take....be that form legal, social, culturally,
or religious.... the key point of being ''Woke" is alertness to
injustice and we can follow that point historically...

So, historically, we can see "Wokeness" in many diverse ways..
for example, we can, with an amount of historical damage,
see Martin Luther as being ''Woke"... becoming aware of the
injustices practiced by the Catholic Church.. which becomes
the basis of Protestantism...

one way to think of 'Wokeism" is to think about holding views that
are opposed to the overwhelming social/societal views...
for example, to hold a view that is different than the views held
by society.. to be an Atheist during the Middle Ages for example..
or to be openly Atheist before say, 1900, was holding a view
that was opposed to by the society/state at large...

to be "woke" is to be oppose to some commonly held belief, held
by the society/state/ culture....

so, let us examine some historical examples of being "Woke"...

One could make the argument that the American Revolution is
"Wokism" at its best... holding to a democracy during that time
period is "Being Woke" it is an opposing viewpoint held that is
opposite to the current, prevailing viewpoints...
which as we know from the "Declaration of Independence"
which was a document which listed the various "injustices"
that the King and Parliament inflicted on the American colonies...
The Declaration is a ''Woke'' document, which is another way
of saying, ''The Declaration is an Enlightenment document"

As one of the primary functions of the ''Enlightenment" is becoming
aware of injustice....hence, the decades long war Voltaire had with the
Catholic Church... in which he saw, with many of his contemporaries,
as "injustice" incarnate...which is just another example of being "woke"...

so let us discuss another example of "being Woke" oppose to the
prevailing viewpoint of the state, society, the culture......
Slavery has been around as long as recorded history, and is mentioned
in the bible...and as such, slavery had the official approval of the state,
the society, religious concerns and the culture until recent times...
(I note that slavery is still practiced around the world today,
in 94 countries you cannot be prosecuted for enslaving another
human being)

and the battle against slavery began around 1780-1790 among
the English religious, within both the clergy and the devoted...
which spread to the ''Woke'' clergy and followers in America...
to fight slavery, against the values, beliefs and officially held
values and beliefs of the state, the society and the culture
is the classical definition of being ''Woke''...

To fight ''injustice'' is what being ''Woke'' is

To protect Jews in Nazi Germany is being ''Woke''
and to fight for civil rights in the United States during the
1950's and 60's is being ''Woke'' and fighting for women's
rights is being ''Woke'' and fighting for gay rights is ''Woke''...
fighting against injustice, in whatever form it takes is
''Being Woke''...

The great leaders of being ''Woke'' are the ones we build statues to
today...from Luther to Washington and Jefferson to Gandi to MLK...

Being aware of injustice, is at the heart of ''Being Woke''

Kropotkin

mickthinks wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:04 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:29 am... Marxian, Neo-Marxism, Post-Marxism, and Cultural Marxism ...

..."Marxism" is Neo-Nazi code for "Jewish Cabal"

mickthinks wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:18 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:56 pm

mickthinks wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:34 pm ...the conniving White Supremacists.

None of whom we can even locate today.

That was a denial of the existence and activity of White Supremacists in the US. You deny facts, dude.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:10 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:25 pm Woke: alert to injustice, especially racism.
"We need to stay angry and stay woke"
is one definition offered by my handy-dandy dictionary...

Being "Woke" has clearly expanded beyond just Racism..
Being "Woke" is about being alert to injustice in whatever form
that injustice might take....be that form legal, social, culturally,
or religious.... the key point of being ''Woke" is alertness to
injustice and we can follow that point historically...

So, historically, we can see "Wokeness" in many diverse ways..
for example, we can, with an amount of historical damage,
see Martin Luther as being ''Woke"... becoming aware of the
injustices practiced by the Catholic Church.. which becomes
the basis of Protestantism...

one way to think of 'Wokeism" is to think about holding views that
are opposed to the overwhelming social/societal views...
for example, to hold a view that is different than the views held
by society.. to be an Atheist during the Middle Ages for example..
or to be openly Atheist before say, 1900, was holding a view
that was opposed to by the society/state at large...

to be "woke" is to be oppose to some commonly held belief, held
by the society/state/ culture....

so, let us examine some historical examples of being "Woke"...

One could make the argument that the American Revolution is
"Wokism" at its best... holding to a democracy during that time
period is "Being Woke" it is an opposing viewpoint held that is
opposite to the current, prevailing viewpoints...
which as we know from the "Declaration of Independence"
which was a document which listed the various "injustices"
that the King and Parliament inflicted on the American colonies...
The Declaration is a ''Woke'' document, which is another way
of saying, ''The Declaration is an Enlightenment document"

As one of the primary functions of the ''Enlightenment" is becoming
aware of injustice....hence, the decades long war Voltaire had with the
Catholic Church... in which he saw, with many of his contemporaries,
as "injustice" incarnate...which is just another example of being "woke"...

so let us discuss another example of "being Woke" oppose to the
prevailing viewpoint of the state, society, the culture......
Slavery has been around as long as recorded history, and is mentioned
in the bible...and as such, slavery had the official approval of the state,
the society, religious concerns and the culture until recent times...
(I note that slavery is still practiced around the world today,
in 94 countries you cannot be prosecuted for enslaving another
human being)

and the battle against slavery began around 1780-1790 among
the English religious, within both the clergy and the devoted...
which spread to the ''Woke'' clergy and followers in America...
to fight slavery, against the values, beliefs and officially held
values and beliefs of the state, the society and the culture
is the classical definition of being ''Woke''...

To fight ''injustice'' is what being ''Woke'' is

To protect Jews in Nazi Germany is being ''Woke''
and to fight for civil rights in the United States during the
1950's and 60's is being ''Woke'' and fighting for women's
rights is being ''Woke'' and fighting for gay rights is ''Woke''...
fighting against injustice, in whatever form it takes is
''Being Woke''...

The great leaders of being ''Woke'' are the ones we build statues to
today...from Luther to Washington and Jefferson to Gandi to MLK...

Being aware of injustice, is at the heart of ''Being Woke''

Kropotkin

This is poor history. The post makes it seem like the term was used in all these contexts. It was not. It doesn't mention it's original meaning. It's doesn't point out that for a long time the term was used by the specific people discriminated against. Not by people who were not discriminated against. IOW not used to mean that someone is somehow cool for pointing out discrimination against third parties. Rather as people being aware of where and how they were in danger in different places and situations. A kind of street smarts and cautiousness. To pull in Ghandi and atheists in the Middle Ages is to make it seem like PKs idiosyncratic explanation of history is the history of the term, as a couple of the funnier examples.

But I would love to see PK tell BLM that George Washington and Jefferson were woke.

That would be a truly lovely conversation. I would make up the largest batch of popcorn ever.

I would love to see that discussion as a live debate, that is...not online. Then PK might find out in a....hm, concrete way what woke can mean today. And that it can be used in ways he wouldn't like at all. That it is a complex phenomenon, not some purely moral thing that he frames it as above. That it has changed over time. I am not sure he is woke enough to realize that he would be in danger in many places for having some of the beliefs he put forward above. And not from racists or conservatives either.

The lack of awareness so saturating a post about a term originally and for most of its history centered on being aware is an irony lost on our dear lecture serious creator.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:06 am If 'woke' means 'aware' (which it doesn't) then why not use the word 'aware'?

There is no such word as 'woke' as a stand alone word. It's a nonsense. An abomination. Just like the morons who came up with it.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:24 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:06 am If 'woke' means 'aware' (which it doesn't) then why not use the word 'aware'?

It must bother you that you are a native speaker in a language with so many synonyms. That said, it orginally meant being aware of places where blacks were in danger from whites in the US. Could have been anything from certain stores or neighborhoods. Places where one should move through them quickly or avoid completely. So, it is was a specific kind of awareness. The meaning has shifted.

There is no such word as 'woke' as a stand alone word. It's a nonsense. An abomination. Just like the morons who came up with it.

Why the fuck aren't you speaking Middle or Old English?

Jesus, I don't even use the word in my speaking life. But I do, I am sure, use words you don't like. As do your fellow NZers or wherever it is you are from. Languages change, new words are introduced. Grow the fuck up.

I hate certain words myself, many that come out of the business world.

But you seem to think you get to say they aren't words. It's a fucking language. They change. If you can't understand that, then you really don't understand something so basic it is almost frightening, since you seem to be intelligent otherwise.

Hate away, but guess what, that word will be used by humans and be in dictionaries and will likely even lose its slang status.

And you use words that people 100 years ago would have considered idiotic or wrong or not the King's English.

Is there any possible way for you to learn this or will the coming decades include you denying the existence of any word not used when you were ten?