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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:08 am
by Maia
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:36 am
I would be very careful about using the word 'magic/magical' if I were you. If these places give off some kind of 'electrical energy' then that's what they give off. It's not 'magic'. Magic doesn't exist by definition.
I'm not at all sure that the definition of magic is something that doesn't exist. That's not how it's traditionally used, anyway.
Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:09 am
by Iwannaplato
Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:07 am
Very interesting (well narrated, too).
I was a little surprised there weren't more videos/ariticles out there. I mean, in the UK and Germany there's been more of a kind of, well if it doesn't hurt why not collaborate attitude inside conventional medicine.
Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:10 am
by Maia
Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:09 am
Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:07 am
Very interesting (well narrated, too).
I was a little surprised there weren't more videos/ariticles out there. I mean, in the UK and Germany there's been more of a kind of, well if it doesn't hurt why not collaborate attitude inside conventional medicine.
I don't think the subject is very well known.
Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:43 am
by Iwannaplato
Let's say we bracket off the issue of 'is magic real?'
We set that aside for a moment.
So, what is magic. It covers not simply phenomena not currently considered real within science. It is more specific than that.
It focuses on phenomena where people, generally, manage to perform actions at a distance.
A ghost, a deity, a tree spirit and so on fit the first category, but not the second.
.
One thing that electromagentic fields can do is affect things not through a visible chain of causes and effects.
So, it's not a surprise that the two ideas might come together.
Elephants could communicate over long distances and some indigenous Africans knew this was true. But it was not considered real until a Western scientist decided it might be infrasound. And, lo and behold, they were communicating over long distances via infrasound, extemely low frequency sounds.
It could have been looked at as claiming elephants were psychic and then we found the mechanism.
Perhaps other phenomena are, and will be found to have, some kind of EM or other already considered real foundation.
One thing that we should avoid, I think, is using words to decide phenomena can't be real.
One can make claims that magic cannot be real because the word means something not natural or scientific is involved and then drawing the conclusion that some specific kind of intentional action at a distance cannot be real. The same kind of thing is often done in philosophy forums with the word 'supernatural'. It is as if we can rule out phenomena because of the way something is categorized, sometimes even categorized by people who don't believe in the phenomenon. It could be real but not categorized correctly. It could be that the word magic or supernatural means something different to the person categorizing it that way. Etc. It's reality is not dependent on that. It's a poor kind of deduction.
And since philosophy forums are the way they are, I need to point out that I do not think I just demonstrated that magic and the supernatural things are real.
Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:33 am
by vegetariantaxidermy
Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:43 am
Let's say we bracket off the issue of 'is magic real?'
We set that aside for a moment.
So, what is magic. It covers not simply phenomena not currently considered real within science. It is more specific than that.
It focuses on phenomena where people, generally, manage to perform actions at a distance.
A ghost, a deity, a tree spirit and so on fit the first category, but not the second.
.
One thing that electromagentic fields can do is affect things
not through a visible chain of causes and effects.
So, it's not a surprise that the two ideas might come together.
Elephants could communicate over long distances and some indigenous Africans knew this was true. But it was not considered real until a Western scientist decided it might be infrasound. And, lo and behold, they
were communicating over long distances via infrasound, extemely low frequency sounds.
It could have been looked at as claiming elephants were psychic and then we found the mechanism.
Perhaps other phenomena are, and will be found to have, some kind of EM or other already considered real foundation.
One thing that we should avoid, I think, is using words to decide phenomena can't be real.
One can make claims that magic cannot be real because the word means something not natural or scientific is involved and then drawing the conclusion that some specific kind of intentional action at a distance cannot be real. The same kind of thing is often done in philosophy forums with the word 'supernatural'. It is as if we can rule out phenomena because of the way something is categorized, sometimes even categorized by people who don't believe in the phenomenon. It could be real but not categorized correctly. It could be that the word magic or supernatural means something different to the person categorizing it that way. Etc. It's reality is not dependent on that. It's a poor kind of deduction.
And since philosophy forums are the way they are, I need to point out that I do not think I just demonstrated that magic and the supernatural things are real.
You've got it arse about face as usual. As soon as something becomes explainable it ceases to be 'magic' or 'supernatural'.
Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:03 am
by Maia
To me, magic is a feeling of the numinous, which occurs in certain places or situations, and is entirely natural. This is why I relate it to electro-magnetism, because it seems similar. It includes a tingling of the skin, for example, like you get in a thunderstorm. But it's different to that, though, in that it seems more localised. I've read many theories of how stone circles are built out of quartz bearing rock, hence their electro-magnetic properties, and similar effects can be induced in ritual.
Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:38 am
by vegetariantaxidermy
What bollocks.
Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:48 am
by Maia
That's exactly why I moved over to this forum, because I'd heard about the high standard of intellectual rigour during debate.
Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:06 am
by Iwannaplato
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:33 am
You've got it arse about face as usual. As soon as something becomes explainable it ceases to be 'magic' or 'supernatural'.
That doesn't contradict what I said. Though it certainly universalizes your preferences.
But more importantly, you've got it arse about face. Being insulting and merely asserting things isn't remotely engaging in a philosophical discussion.
Munted idiots staggering out of bars manage that with great regularity.
I know it's satisfying having the internet so you can snarl anonymously at the great unwashed, but I have rarely seen you contribute much more than bile and bare assertions here.
It's facile, lazy and hopefully makes you more pleasant with people you are in face to face contact with.
I'll go with that as a silver lining, but ignore you utterly in this thread since you are likely incapable of rational discource here.
Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:25 am
by vegetariantaxidermy
Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:06 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:33 am
You've got it arse about face as usual. As soon as something becomes explainable it ceases to be 'magic' or 'supernatural'.
That doesn't contradict what I said. Though it certainly universalizes your preferences.
But more importantly, you've got it arse about face. Being insulting and merely asserting things isn't remotely engaging in a philosophical discussion.
Munted idiots staggering out of bars manage that with great regularity.
I know it's satisfying having the internet so you can snarl anonymously at the great unwashed, but I have rarely seen you contribute much more than bile and bare assertions here.
It's facile, lazy and hopefully makes you more pleasant with people you are in face to face contact with.
I'll go with that as a silver lining, but ignore you utterly in this thread since you are likely incapable of rational discource here.
Sensitive little soul aren't you?
Pot calling kettle black springs to mind. You can be quite an arsehole yourself. A little self awareness goes a long way. Just saying.
Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:28 am
by vegetariantaxidermy
Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:48 am
That's exactly why I moved over to this forum, because I'd heard about the high standard of intellectual rigour during debate.
You want an 'intellectual debate' about your belief in magic? Good luck with that.
Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:30 am
by Maia
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:28 am
Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:48 am
That's exactly why I moved over to this forum, because I'd heard about the high standard of intellectual rigour during debate.
You want an 'intellectual debate' about your belief in magic? Good luck with that.
I believe in what I experience.
Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:35 am
by Dontaskme
There is no cure for death, for even death is life in latent static equilibrium form interacting with the forces of active kinetic movement. Life is all the same one energy interacting with itself. It's only magic in the context of it's own not-knowing source.
Life and Death are the same thing, they just differ in appearance that's all. All the same one love action dreaming difference where there is none.
Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:10 pm
by Sculptor
Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:28 am
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:52 pm
Magic is related to illusion, and delusion.
Electro-magnetism is related to science.
That was what I was trying to address in my post. Magic is a term that has been pretty badly debased over the years, but in its original meaning, it's a real phenomenon.
No magic was always a delusion.
Magicians are experts in diversion and misdirection. Ladies are not REALLY cut in half, and rabbit are not really pulled out of hats.
Some of the fairground magicians 100 - 150 years ago used to use real science to dupe their public, but generally magic always requires the public to be gullible.
Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:11 pm
by Sculptor
Walker wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:39 am
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:52 pm
Magic is related to illusion, and delusion.
Electro-magnetism is related to science.
Iron is related to blood.
And stupidity is related to brain activity. DO you have a point?