Philosophy Now Forum

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:24 am sitting here on the arsehole of the planet.

I'm sure that isn't the case. You've even got mountains.

roydop wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:47 am…/Roy opens the box without any thoughts entering his consciousness. He simply witnesses free from interpretation./…

Dear roydop,

Setting aside the two Q’s in your OP for a moment; is it not in fact so that if you are seeing a cat at all, you are already interpreting the information before you?

My guess is that to actually “witness [proposed scenario] without interpretation” would result in not interpreting what is encountered as a ‘cat’, but rather, as abstract data.

Even in deep meditative states and/or trances where conscious thought is silenced; if and when exposed to sensory, the human mind will tend to interpret that sensory in 3D (as ‘cat’; if we’re talking Schrodinger's thought experiment). This is because, evolutionarily, a 3D perspective has sufficed - and indeed, best benefitted - the survival of our species.

My own view is not that humans cannot experience free from interpretation (to 3D), but that doing so exposes you to experiences for which we have no language and so, if you are experiencing without interpreting, there’s be no words with which to describe your experience to someone else. (Fun note: Though not established, it’s at times been suggested that people with a certain type of autism, may experience their surroundings in such an abstract manner.)


Humbly
Hermit

roydop wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:47 am Sally opens the box and sadly declares the state of a dead cat.

Roy opens the box without any thoughts entering his consciousness. He simply witnesses free from interpretation.

In Sally's world there is a dead cat and Roy's world is still in superposition.

A: Are there two worlds?

B: Which world is more fundamental?

There is no superposition (not up here on our level, anyway) That there cat is dead or alive (not both) and it's definitively one or the other even if no one opens the box (if alive, though, somebody ought to let it out, or it'll be dead).

roydop wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:47 am Sally opens the box and sadly declares the state of a dead cat.

Roy opens the box without any thoughts entering his consciousness. He simply witnesses free from interpretation.

In Sally's world there is a dead cat and Roy's world is still in superposition.

A: Are there two worlds?

B: Which world is more fundamental?

In this world Roy told Henry to shut up. Oddly Henry was not in superposition and sadly for Roy he experienced the Henry that thinks what Roy says is crap. I see all the Henrys dancing in their glorious crankyopenclosedsnarlingsmiling.........

But I am so glad to hear that Roy is not angry at Schrödinger's box. He is learning.

Sally, by the way, cuts a mean floor when doing liquid dance to some Eve, like maybe Tambourine. Though I hear Roy cuts a mean sitting in a chair not thinking.

All got something.

I see all the Henrys dancing in their glorious crankyopenclosedsnarlingsmiling.........

The Quirkalypse

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:08 pm

I see all the Henrys dancing in their glorious crankyopenclosedsnarlingsmiling.........

The Quirkalypse

I know, deep down, you're also a quark.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:14 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:08 pm

I see all the Henrys dancing in their glorious crankyopenclosedsnarlingsmiling.........

The Quirkalypse

I know, deep down, you're also a quark.

Thank you! Yes, I am a fundamental necessity, a building block, of Reality.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:21 pm

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:14 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:08 pm

The Quirkalypse

I know, deep down, you're also a quark.

Thank you! Yes, I am a fundamental necessity, a building block, of Reality.

Oh, I know all about you...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -big-bang/

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:39 pm
There is no superposition (not up here on our level, anyway) That there cat is dead or alive (not both) and it's definitively one or the other even if no one opens the box (if alive, though, somebody ought to let it out, or it'll be dead).

Yes, there is superposition

( So up here on our level anyway) That there cat is neither dead nor alive. The supposition that the cat is definitely either dead or alive is only a belief held without proof or certain knowledge. It would be only an assumption or hypothesis.

But in the conceptual realm, the world of the known as concept, what is conceptually known is never absolute definitive truth, because that which is known knows absolutely nothing of truth. Truth is truthless.


.

roydop wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:47 am A: Are there two worlds?

B: Which world is more fundamental?

One world, many witnesses.. so differing styles of witnessing/experiencing that one world.

Does one aspect need be fundamental, over another? It sounds to me that you have removed the emotional aspect of thought from the observation, so the event being just the event but without consequence.

MagsJ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:02 pm

roydop wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:47 am A: Are there two worlds?

B: Which world is more fundamental?

One world, many witnesses.. so differing styles of witnessing/experiencing that one world.

Does one aspect need be fundamental, over another? It sounds to me that you have removed the emotional aspect of thought from the observation, so the event being just the event but without consequence.

In a movie theater there are many consciousness experiencing a single realm. In this Divine theater, there is a single consciousness experiencing many realms. The ego has its model of reality inverted.

Having the ability to flip between the two realms, I do experience and describe the thought-free realm to be more fundamental than the normal state of human, thought-based state. And yes, it does remove all emotion. The state is called "Sat Chit Ananda". This is the state I keep pointing to that gets some folk here all bent outta shape.

roydop wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:17 pm The state is called "Sat Chit Ananda".

The other name for it is Cloud Cuckoo Land.

This is the state I keep pointing to that gets some folk here all bent outta shape.

I think it was going to the gym that got you bent outta shape, Roy.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:24 am

Not sure what that means. But heck, if you are in the same country then that seems close to me, sitting here on the arsehole of the planet.

Well to be fair, your location is a good place to be. I've heard recently through the grapevine that NZ won't get nuked. No nuclear bombs are going to wasted on NZ so I've heard. I certainly don't wanna die the nuke way.

When you think that thoughts are too important, then you think that is there are no thought then there are no thing at all.

That is so so wrong.

When you turn off the thoughts, you just... turn off the thoughts.... you still have experience, sensations...., you still see, hear and feel.

The ego of "roydop" is too strong that it make him understand all wrong

When you are "awakened" or "enlightened", is just that the ego construct is gone, because is made of thoughs, and then you percieve all without judge, so you dont think in terms of "I am" or "you are", and that is where you understand that this "I am" is a construction and is not real.

And if you are not this "I am", then, what are you? That is what you may understand in that experience, because if nothing can define what you are but you are still being, existing, then MAYBE you are that "thing" that there is not a thing... and you understand the limits of knowledge, where there are two options:

1- Even if "I am" is not real, the experience start with the complex matter of the new born body.
2- "I am" is not real, and the experience is what start in the origin of the first matter.

But you dont go to another state, you dont experience "superposition". That is all just wrong understanding.


And you cannot conclude one theory or the other from the experience of being without thoughs, because it can be explained from the two theories.


roydop is just a person, like there are a lot, who have experience this, but dont understand that this experience doesnt make you smart instantly, you must to put all in orden, and that take time, study, understanding other theories, etc.


Dont make this theory more bad reputation, that it has bad reputation already.


Sorry for my english.

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:29 pm

roydop wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:17 pm The state is called "Sat Chit Ananda".

The other name for it is Cloud Cuckoo Land.

This is the state I keep pointing to that gets some folk here all bent outta shape.

I think it was going to the gym that got you bent outta shape, Roy.

Sat Chit Ananda is a state of Awareness/Consciousness. Upon remembering/discovering such I felt the need to share this wonderful, perfect happiness with others. You choose not to seek this state, which is fine by me. If you don't believe in this stuff why do you keep trolling me?

Either contribute or go away