Philosophy Now Forum

DPMartin wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:29 pm they are selling social freedom to those who are already free.

Yes, they are.

That's the reason why the first thing they tell you they have to do is get you to "awaken" (i.e. become "woke") from what they call "false consciousness." They want you to think you are "oppressed" or "oppressing" people, but that you don't know it.

They tell you that only by slipping on the Critical Theory oppression-coloured-glasses they provide will you finally "see" how you are complicit in oppression...your own, and everybody else's. If you have been happy, you will then become resentful and alienated, and willing to rebel. And that's the state they need you to be in, in order to get you to participate in their "revolution."

So the upshot is that they are alienation-salesmen and saleswomen, whose job is to get you to become very unhappy, hostile and resentful (if you're "oppressed"), or very loaded with shame and desire to purge your former sins of oppression (if you are an "oppressor"), so that in both cases you'll overthrow the status quo with them, and buy into their revolutionary plans.

They intend to make you miserable and resentful. That makes you useful.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:51 pm

DPMartin wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:29 pm they are selling social freedom to those who are already free.

Yes, they are.

That's the reason why the first thing they tell you they have to do is get you to "awaken" (i.e. become "woke") from what they call "false consciousness." They want you to think you are "oppressed" or "oppressing" people, but that you don't know it.

They tell you that only by slipping on the Critical Theory oppression-coloured-glasses they provide will you finally "see" how you are complicit in oppression...your own, and everybody else's. If you have been happy, you will then become resentful and alienated, and willing to rebel. And that's the state they need you to be in, in order to get you to participate in their "revolution."

So the upshot is that they are alienation-salesmen and saleswomen, whose job is to get you to become very unhappy, hostile and resentful (if you're "oppressed"), or very loaded with shame and desire to purge your former sins of oppression (if you are an "oppressor"), so that in both cases you'll overthrow the status quo with them, and buy into their revolutionary plans.

They intend to make you miserable and resentful. That makes you useful.

Yes. It's all a sinister plot. Even as we speak, Amnesty International is probably plotting to take over the world.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:24 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:51 pm

DPMartin wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:29 pm they are selling social freedom to those who are already free.

Yes, they are.

That's the reason why the first thing they tell you they have to do is get you to "awaken" (i.e. become "woke") from what they call "false consciousness." They want you to think you are "oppressed" or "oppressing" people, but that you don't know it.

They tell you that only by slipping on the Critical Theory oppression-coloured-glasses they provide will you finally "see" how you are complicit in oppression...your own, and everybody else's. If you have been happy, you will then become resentful and alienated, and willing to rebel. And that's the state they need you to be in, in order to get you to participate in their "revolution."

So the upshot is that they are alienation-salesmen and saleswomen, whose job is to get you to become very unhappy, hostile and resentful (if you're "oppressed"), or very loaded with shame and desire to purge your former sins of oppression (if you are an "oppressor"), so that in both cases you'll overthrow the status quo with them, and buy into their revolutionary plans.

They intend to make you miserable and resentful. That makes you useful.

Yes. It's all a sinister plot.

Not a "plot," Gary, but a product of people being indoctrinated with a dangerous and destructive ideology.

They behave as they do not merely because there is some cabal plotting to make us all Marxists (though the WEF certainly fits that bill), but because people are being marketed and sold this package of nonsense through things like the government, the media and the public education system. But it's the toxic ideology, not a particular person, that is behind the problem.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:24 am
Yes. It's all a sinister plot. Even as we speak, Amnesty International is probably plotting to take over the world.

thing is Gary globalization isn't some unrealistic conspiracy theory. and the desire in the world to accomplish it does exist with those who could make it happen. and media is a major player. what is one of their boasts during their tiff with trump? I do believe its, they are in over a hundred and fifty countries. that's one organization with the same kind of trusted influence in that many countries.

the only other organization (now despised with the help of media) with that kind of influence with the general public, on a international scale in the past 1800 years is the roman catholic church.

interesting what was once good and to be trusted, the church, (in the minds of the people) now is evil and what was generally thought of as evil or to be distained was manipulative tabloid journalism, which is now good, believed and trusted. all in the very same what is now considered the free world.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:51 pm

DPMartin wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:29 pm they are selling social freedom to those who are already free.

Yes, they are.

That's the reason why the first thing they tell you they have to do is get you to "awaken" (i.e. become "woke") from what they call "false consciousness." They want you to think you are "oppressed" or "oppressing" people, but that you don't know it.

They tell you that only by slipping on the Critical Theory oppression-coloured-glasses they provide will you finally "see" how you are complicit in oppression...your own, and everybody else's. If you have been happy, you will then become resentful and alienated, and willing to rebel. And that's the state they need you to be in, in order to get you to participate in their "revolution."

So the upshot is that they are alienation-salesmen and saleswomen, whose job is to get you to become very unhappy, hostile and resentful (if you're "oppressed"), or very loaded with shame and desire to purge your former sins of oppression (if you are an "oppressor"), so that in both cases you'll overthrow the status quo with them, and buy into their revolutionary plans.

They intend to make you miserable and resentful. That makes you useful.

I'd say disenfranchised makes people want take action, but in this case, note that everyone was disenfranchised that had no financial power in the coved event. forced unemployment by the same who were getting pay checks.

DPMartin wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:52 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:51 pm

DPMartin wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:29 pm they are selling social freedom to those who are already free.

Yes, they are.

That's the reason why the first thing they tell you they have to do is get you to "awaken" (i.e. become "woke") from what they call "false consciousness." They want you to think you are "oppressed" or "oppressing" people, but that you don't know it.

They tell you that only by slipping on the Critical Theory oppression-coloured-glasses they provide will you finally "see" how you are complicit in oppression...your own, and everybody else's. If you have been happy, you will then become resentful and alienated, and willing to rebel. And that's the state they need you to be in, in order to get you to participate in their "revolution."

So the upshot is that they are alienation-salesmen and saleswomen, whose job is to get you to become very unhappy, hostile and resentful (if you're "oppressed"), or very loaded with shame and desire to purge your former sins of oppression (if you are an "oppressor"), so that in both cases you'll overthrow the status quo with them, and buy into their revolutionary plans.

They intend to make you miserable and resentful. That makes you useful.

I'd say disenfranchised makes people want take action, but in this case, note that everyone was disenfranchised that had no financial power in the coved event. forced unemployment by the same who were getting pay checks.

Yeah, that's an irony, for sure...and Social Justice ideology has many. (One is that it claims to speak for women, but can't say what a "woman" is, apparently. )

Training people to imagine "oppression" every time they don't get somethng they want or expect makes them angry, mean and active...good "revolutionaries," in other words. But it will make them impossible to govern afterwards. So the Socialist state must viciously repress the very inclinations in its citizens that it stirred up during the "revolutionary" period; now they must NOT be allowed to be angry, entitled and aggressive...they must be put down fiercely, and turned into drones or cringing cowards who will uncomplainingly accept whatever crumbs the Socialist government is still willing to hand them.

So first, Socialism makes people permanently unhappy, aggrieved, jealous, greedy for more, and quick to be violent; and then it has to beat them into meek, docile, terrified, cringing, cooperative, uncomplaining lambs.

Naturally, making that change inevitably entails monstrous levels of violence.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:25 pm

DPMartin wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:52 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:51 pm
Yes, they are.

That's the reason why the first thing they tell you they have to do is get you to "awaken" (i.e. become "woke") from what they call "false consciousness." They want you to think you are "oppressed" or "oppressing" people, but that you don't know it.

They tell you that only by slipping on the Critical Theory oppression-coloured-glasses they provide will you finally "see" how you are complicit in oppression...your own, and everybody else's. If you have been happy, you will then become resentful and alienated, and willing to rebel. And that's the state they need you to be in, in order to get you to participate in their "revolution."

So the upshot is that they are alienation-salesmen and saleswomen, whose job is to get you to become very unhappy, hostile and resentful (if you're "oppressed"), or very loaded with shame and desire to purge your former sins of oppression (if you are an "oppressor"), so that in both cases you'll overthrow the status quo with them, and buy into their revolutionary plans.

They intend to make you miserable and resentful. That makes you useful.

I'd say disenfranchised makes people want take action, but in this case, note that everyone was disenfranchised that had no financial power in the coved event. forced unemployment by the same who were getting pay checks.

Yeah, that's an irony, for sure...and Social Justice ideology has many. (One is that it claims to speak for women, but can't say what a "woman" is, apparently. )

Training people to imagine "oppression" every time they don't get somethng they want or expect makes them angry, mean and active...good "revolutionaries," in other words. But it will make them impossible to govern afterwards. So the Socialist state must viciously repress the very inclinations in its citizens that it stirred up during the "revolutionary" period; now they must NOT be allowed to be angry, entitled and aggressive...they must be put down fiercely, and turned into drones or cringing cowards who will uncomplainingly accept whatever crumbs the Socialist government is still willing to hand them.

So first, Socialism makes people permanently unhappy, aggrieved, jealous, greedy for more, and quick to be violent; and then it has to beat them into meek, docile, terrified, cringing, cooperative, uncomplaining lambs.

Naturally, making that change inevitably entails monstrous levels of violence.

that is exactly what happened in the Russian and china cases.

DPMartin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:30 pm

Naturally, making that change inevitably entails monstrous levels of violence.

that is exactly what happened in the Russian and china cases.

Yes, exactly.

The Socialist authorities realize that they were able to disquiet and mobilize people, resulting in a complete overthrow of the system and the butchery of the former authorities. And they know darn well they don't want that to happen to them, when the next rabble-rouser comes along. So they have to turn around and suppress their former friends with sufficient brutality and thoroughness to knock all the fight out of them, or else to so completely disable them from having any power that there's nothing they can do.

And if they get it wrong, or go too lightly, the Socialist authorities know darn well what it will cost them. So they make sure to get it right.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:48 pm

DPMartin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:30 pm

Naturally, making that change inevitably entails monstrous levels of violence.

that is exactly what happened in the Russian and china cases.

Yes, exactly.

The Socialist authorities realize that they were able to disquiet and mobilize people, resulting in a complete overthrow of the system and the butchery of the former authorities. And they know darn well they don't want that to happen to them, when the next rabble-rouser comes along. So they have to turn around and suppress their former friends with sufficient brutality and thoroughness to knock all the fight out of them, or else to so completely disable them from having any power that there's nothing they can do.

And if they get it wrong, or go too lightly, the Socialist authorities know darn well what it will cost them. So they make sure to get it right.

sure

Just to show how it got in the USSR a coworker back when the iron curtain went down, he went to visit relatives in the Ukraine, and he noticed that they would still whisper even within the walls of their own house when talking about politics. There were also abandoned checkpoints everywhere.
When I was stationed in Germany in the late 70's i met people who smuggled bibles across the iron curtain.


Today when the time comes, all this social media and cloud storage will backfire on the general public and can be used against them. All they have to do, is change the rules in the name of national or public safety. Which they have done in recent history already, this generation is affable to it, and will accept it out of fear.

If you’re a communist country like Russia or China, the best thing that could happen is the US of A becomes communist or socialist without one shot fired. It’s a reality, the US of A was trying to convert the USSR public to democracy and capitalism, promoting the freedom ideology back in the day, by demonizing everything the USSR’s treatment of its people. And it almost got there, but guys like Putin shows how they can work around that.

Advocate wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:05 pm Black studies, women's studies, etc. should be rebranded as History of Oppression, which is the majority of what they're about. The cultural stuff otherwise is part of the common heritage of humanity and belongs to everyone.

And we must resist the urge to brand people as oppressed because of their external appearance. Only by their acts can we know them, and the real person is hidden away inside.

We are all individuals regardless of how we self-identify and what luck popped us out as. Some people identify with their race/gender/age/etc. and some do not. Justice, social or otherwise, must be individual to be justice.

The obvious problem with your problem expressed here; "And we must resist the urge to brand people as oppressed because of their external appearance", is that it is a simple truth the people have been oppressed because of their external appearance, so to deny that is telling lies.
Only by their acts shall we know them. The acts of the oppressor are that they have decided to enslave black people because they are black and treat women unequally because they are women.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:47 pm

Advocate wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:05 pm Black studies, women's studies, etc. should be rebranded as History of Oppression, which is the majority of what they're about. The cultural stuff otherwise is part of the common heritage of humanity and belongs to everyone.

And we must resist the urge to brand people as oppressed because of their external appearance. Only by their acts can we know them, and the real person is hidden away inside.

We are all individuals regardless of how we self-identify and what luck popped us out as. Some people identify with their race/gender/age/etc. and some do not. Justice, social or otherwise, must be individual to be justice.

The obvious problem with your problem expressed here; "And we must resist the urge to brand people as oppressed because of their external appearance", is that it is a simple truth the people have been oppressed because of their external appearance, so to deny that is telling lies.
Only by their acts shall we know them. The acts of the oppressor are that they have decided to enslave black people because they are black and treat women unequally because they are women.

na, all this hype is for reverse racism, its ok for a black to treat a white as a white bread whitey cracker full of disdain and outrage because whitey is the oppressor, and blacks a women are victims of all whites. media needs controversy and the minorities gain momentum of payback. a colored man was elected president of the US not long ago, just what is withheld from minorities?


media magnifies an incident and the minorities are enraged. there was an incident where a white guy had a toy rifle in a hotel some jagoff saw it a called the police they had the guy in the hall of the hotel with guns drawn he was on the floor asked them not to shot and moved his hand now he's dead. no one cares. but the reason the cop was cleared just like the others was procedure. how cops make law that are rules of engagement without law makers is what is being hidden in all of this. by media fanning the race fire.

DPMartin wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:43 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:48 pm

DPMartin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:30 pm
that is exactly what happened in the Russian and china cases.

Yes, exactly.

The Socialist authorities realize that they were able to disquiet and mobilize people, resulting in a complete overthrow of the system and the butchery of the former authorities. And they know darn well they don't want that to happen to them, when the next rabble-rouser comes along. So they have to turn around and suppress their former friends with sufficient brutality and thoroughness to knock all the fight out of them, or else to so completely disable them from having any power that there's nothing they can do.

And if they get it wrong, or go too lightly, the Socialist authorities know darn well what it will cost them. So they make sure to get it right.

sure

Just to show how it got in the USSR a coworker back when the iron curtain went down, he went to visit relatives in the Ukraine, and he noticed that they would still whisper even within the walls of their own house when talking about politics. There were also abandoned checkpoints everywhere.
When I was stationed in Germany in the late 70's i met people who smuggled bibles across the iron curtain.

Yes, I also know those people personally. In East Germany, a gestapo-type police force called the "Stasi" were used to suppress dissent with extreme prejudice, and neighbours were urged to tattle on each other -- failure to do so being grounds for your own visit from the Stasi. So the whole culture was continually wracked by mutual mistrust and fear; just annoying your neighbour could get you a bad report and the attention of the Stasi.

Today when the time comes, all this social media and cloud storage will backfire on the general public and can be used against them. All they have to do, is change the rules in the name of national or public safety. Which they have done in recent history already, this generation is affable to it, and will accept it out of fear.

They won't even be asked, I suspect. It will be done without their notice or their say-so. It already is, at least for commercial purposes; and in a single-party State, why not the government, too?

If you’re a communist country like Russia or China, the best thing that could happen is the US of A becomes communist or socialist without one shot fired.

Yes: both Putin and China are giggling over the rise of Social Justice ideology in America. Disorder, mutual hatred and internal conflicts there ensure that America will not and cannot act effectively against their plans.

...the US of A was trying to convert the USSR public to democracy and capitalism, promoting the freedom ideology back in the day, by demonizing everything the USSR’s treatment of its people.

Well, you don't have to "demonize" something already so diabolical. It's already demonish enough itself. The Russians killed at least 15 to 20 million of it's own people who either resisted, it or did not but were denounced as "counterrevolutionaries" by others anyway. That's pretty demonic.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:45 pm
Yes, I also know those people personally. In East Germany, a gestapo-type police force called the "Stasi" were used to suppress dissent with extreme prejudice, and neighbours were urged to tattle on each other -- failure to do so being grounds for your own visit from the Stasi. So the whole culture was continually wracked by mutual mistrust and fear; just annoying your neighbour could get you a bad report and the attention of the Stasi.

sounds like "If You See Something, Say Something", doesn't it?

DPMartin wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:07 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:45 pm
Yes, I also know those people personally. In East Germany, a gestapo-type police force called the "Stasi" were used to suppress dissent with extreme prejudice, and neighbours were urged to tattle on each other -- failure to do so being grounds for your own visit from the Stasi. So the whole culture was continually wracked by mutual mistrust and fear; just annoying your neighbour could get you a bad report and the attention of the Stasi.

sounds like "If You See Something, Say Something", doesn't it?

Very much. And not accidentally, of course.

Advocate wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:05 pm Black studies, women's studies, etc. should be rebranded as History of Oppression, which is the majority of what they're about. The cultural stuff otherwise is part of the common heritage of humanity and belongs to everyone.

And we must resist the urge to brand people as oppressed because of their external appearance. Only by their acts can we know them, and the real person is hidden away inside. We are all individuals regardless of how we self-identify and what luck popped us out as. Some people identify with their race/gender/age/etc. and some do not. Justice, social or otherwise, must be individual to be justice.

In order to make sense of individual types, distinctive due to physical characteristics gender, etc.., one needs to consider the individual group of those oppressed in relation to the changing thought and context over time, for context defines and biology does not follow fashion. Some changes violate human nature in general and are in serves to a system foreign to biological nature. The question then becomes in relation to oppression, is the system going to serve you or are you going to serve the system. The system changes over time due to the zeitgeist of the time, only if reason and compassion steer the course can we look forward to greater justice for the individual.