Philosophy Now Forum

Dubious wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:13 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:07 pm In the meantime I'll just have to persevere without romantic love, I guess.

That part is easy romantic love so often itself being a sign of disease.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:42 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:13 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:07 pm In the meantime I'll just have to persevere without romantic love, I guess.

That part is easy romantic love so often itself being a sign of disease.

True And, oddly enough, narcissism. Just look at the way 'celebrities' gush over their 'soul mate' only to be with a different 'soul mate' five minutes later. Being genuinely 'in love' has many of the same features as a mental illness. It can be extremely unpleasant. Just think of all the people who kill themselves over 'romantic love'. So much for being 'magical'.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:13 pm The more money you have, the shallower you become in every aspect and dimension of being human. Character is created out of struggle and suffering, because one needs something to overcome in order to become better. Now I don't claim everyone should go broke on purpose so to develop better character. That would be retarded. What I'm saying is that the frequency of superficial character increases the easier life becomes. Ergo, the celebrity flakes who's lives are like a fairytale.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:50 pmIt would be better to be hated than loved unconditionally which makes one no more valueable than a piece of trash or refuse.

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:05 am

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:50 pmIt would be better to be hated than loved unconditionally which makes one no more valueable than a piece of trash or refuse.

To be … non-possessive of the woman you love
Is not the same as
To be … non-possessive of garbage.

For her sake, you need to be enlightened to the difference.

The first sets free what you enslaved with your need
The second sets you free from hoarding your waste

Surely, you can see the difference.

Aspire to the freedom of your beloved, and

Shun enslavement to your waste
(Even if you’re rich as Howie Hughes)

Are you the only one who steers?

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:01 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:07 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:39 pm
You have to make yourself a person that is worth loving by another, someone another person can admire and value because of your character, achievement, and integrity. You have to be someone another will find pleasure in because you are interesting and enjoyable for them to be with. You have to be someone another will find is always reasonable, who will never resort to manipulation by appealing to anything other than their own best reason--never threatening, appealing to fears, or feelings, or emotions, or their weaknesses or irrational desires.

Of course the one you love must be to you what you are to them, and once you have chosen each other as the love of your life, your objective will always the happiness of the other because they are the source of yours.

What any of these will mean in specifics will be different for everyone, because everyone's interests and desires are different, but in principle I think these apply to everyone.

Well, it's almost impossible to have "character" and "achievement" with a serious mental illness. Just not my life I guess. Maybe next time around God or the great hoobdy doobdy (or whatever runs this world) will bless me with something other than schizoaffective disorder. In the meantime I'll just have to persevere without romantic love, I guess.

Have you read A Beautiful Mind? Overcoming schizofrenia is not impossible and can definitely include both success and romantic love. [More here and in his own words here.]

[There is a movie made from the book, which iI think is a bit of a distortion, but you might find it interesting and something to think about.]

Don't ever give up! There are no guarantees in life. One can never know what they may achieve until they try. The only thing that is certain is you will never know what you might have achieved if you give up. No one achieves everything they could possibly aspire too, but success is achieving and being all one really can.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:10 pm [... find a mate they can count on. That's not about romance or being beautiful; it's about understanding, trust, affection and acceptance.]
Every individual's experience is different, but mine is a little more than that. I'm in my eighties, and my wife in her seventies, and our love is more, "romantic," (because we've both grown so much) then ever. Perhaps it's our love, but my wife does not have a single grey hair, and just enough creases in her face to land character which has made her more beautiful to me. I feel sorry for those who find they've lost romance or find no beauty in those they love, but I'm afraid it is what most experience.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:40 am I pitty any woman who gets saddled with you and your view of love.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:17 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:46 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:32 am Is there such a thing as romantic love?

Yes romatic love does exist, it exists as a feeling, but like all feelings, it's a fleeting temporal sensation.

Unfortunately, sensations have a mind of their own, there is nothing in reality that has any control over their appearance. No sensation can be bottled to keep forever, or held in the hand or have any place to be on a permanent basis.

Romantic love is something that can be enjoyed in the moment of it's visit, but it is just a visitor, it's like a butterfly, lovely to look at in the moment, but to hold a butterfly too tight will crush it, it must always be allowed to fly away.

.

One must be worthy of romantic love to find it. There must be something of value in the individual that is worth loving and worth pursuing as one's highest value. Most of those who repudiate romantic love have simply despaired of finding it because they know they will never earn or deserve it.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:18 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:55 am Just look at the divorce rate...

I've heard that divorce and/or breaking up can be very painful. LIfe and love have the potential to be such wonderful things and yet they fall so short. This world is so broken. I think if there is a God, then God should feel shame for how broken this world is that it created.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:47 am

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:01 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:07 pm

Well, it's almost impossible to have "character" and "achievement" with a serious mental illness. Just not my life I guess. Maybe next time around God or the great hoobdy doobdy (or whatever runs this world) will bless me with something other than schizoaffective disorder. In the meantime I'll just have to persevere without romantic love, I guess.

Have you read A Beautiful Mind? Overcoming schizofrenia is not impossible and can definitely include both success and romantic love. [More here and in his own words here.]

[There is a movie made from the book, which iI think is a bit of a distortion, but you might find it interesting and something to think about.]

Don't ever give up! There are no guarantees in life. One can never know what they may achieve until they try. The only thing that is certain is you will never know what you might have achieved if you give up. No one achieves everything they could possibly aspire too, but success is achieving and being all one really can.

Some 'not so nice' aspects of his life were left out of the book and film, but he did learn to overcome it as far as it's possible to do so ''...he learned how to consciously discard his paranoid delusions.'' The people who seem to do the best with schizophrenia are the highly intelligent, self-aware ones and they don't do it with drugs. I'm pretty sure that mind altering drugs will make anything to do with the brain worse in the long run.

Skip wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:27 am

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:10 pm [... find a mate they can count on. That's not about romance or being beautiful; it's about understanding, trust, affection and acceptance.]
Every individual's experience is different, but mine is a little more than that. I'm in my eighties, and my wife in her seventies, and our love is more, "romantic," (because we've both grown so much) then ever. Perhaps it's our love, but my wife does not have a single grey hair, and just enough creases in her face to land character which has made her more beautiful to me. I feel sorry for those who find they've lost romance or find no beauty in those they love, but I'm afraid it is what most experience.

You're lucky to have a pretty wife and to define romance in the way that you do - that's the gravy. (And the grey hair thing is genetic.) But it's not the essence of finding of the right mate. If that's all people look for, and especially if that's all they offer, they're usually disappointed. And get divorced. And feel miserable. And can't figure out why.

(And the grey hair thing is genetic.)