Philosophy Now Forum

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:07 pm Love is not particularly important at all. Conscience is a bit more noteworthy. But there’s stuff that increase mean lifetime and is succesful in decreasing poverty and stuff like that. More potent faculties in the well ordered brain.

but which in principle is more important for a person, conscience or mean lifetime?

Janoah wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:36 pm

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:07 pm Love is not particularly important at all. Conscience is a bit more noteworthy. But there’s stuff that increase mean lifetime and is succesful in decreasing poverty and stuff like that. More potent faculties in the well ordered brain.

but which in principle is more important for a person, conscience or mean lifetime?

In other words, scoring on points or scoring on Ippon? Do you collect goodies and avoid baddies to put in that saint Peter scale. I am more of a do really good stuff and dont get too mean guy. The goodies of life has been provided from brains above average focussing on the tricky things they do.

Love and consciense, their primal supporters are mummies from well-off families wanting the best for their mediocre offspring. - as their real agenda. Probably a good thing in the hunter gatherer period.

Naughtiness should be quenched by well working institutions in the well ordered state.

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:59 am The goodies of life has been provided from brains above average focussing on the tricky things they do.

Love and consciense, their primal supporters are mummies from well-off families

May be. But why the goodies of life, if life without conscience. After all, conscience brings really gladness, and the goodies of life bring only pleasure.

Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:13 am People are looking for what is more important, what is the cause and what is the consequence, what is the main moral rule?

You have all rights when it comes to your life but you have no right to the lives of others.

Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:13 am The question is, is there a main principle in human life, and if so, what is it?

To seek the truth and the truth will set you free.

Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:13 am There is an opinion that love is primary.

It is not.

Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:13 am But what is primary, to follow love or follow conscience?

Depends on circumstances.

Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:13 am People are looking for what is more important, what is the cause and what is the consequence, what is the main moral rule?

The 'main moral rule' IS; Do NOT abuse absolutely ANY 'thing'.

Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:13 am The question is, is there a main principle in human life, and if so, what is it?

If the 'main principle', in human life, is to KNOW thee one and ONLY ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Truth, in Life, then that is just done through being Truly Honest and Open, and with a serious Want or Willingness to CHANGE, for the better.

But,

If the 'main principle', in human life, is KNOW what is ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY Right and Wrong, in Life, then that is just done through being Truly Honest and Open, and with a serious Want or Willingness to CHANGE, for the better, while discovering what is NEEDED in Life compared to what is just WANTED in Life.

Both are KNOWN by and through AGREEMENT WITH and ACCEPTANCE BY ALL.

Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:13 am There is an opinion that love is primary.

TRUE LOVE is 'primary'. But, 'you', adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, are STILL some ways from FULLY UNDERSTANDING 'this' YET.

TRUE LOVE, by the way, is JUST:

Trust,
Respect,
Understanding,
Empathy,

Loyalty (Honesty),
Openness, with
Voluntary
Enthusiasm,

FOR and WITH absolutely EVERY one.


'Laws' are just human constructs, which, OBVIOUSLY, have NOT been working.

There is One 'lore', however, which WHEN and IF 'followed', voluntarily, leads to creating a Truly Peaceful 'world' for EVERY one. That 'lore' IS:

Do NOT abuse ANY 'thing'. And, how this is GUIDED ON or JUDGED BY is by putting one's self ' into the shoes of "others" ', as some might say.

There is a BIT MORE to this, but ONLY the the Truly INTERESTED ones WILL REVEAL "themselves".

Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:13 am But what is primary, to follow love or follow conscience?

What is 'the difference'?

When one is 'following' True Conscience, Itself, then one is PROVIDING 'love' ONLY anyway.

Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:21 am the individual is primary

-Imp

'primary' in relation to 'what', EXACTLY?

If there are two human beings stuck on a boat, for example, and only one could survive, then 'the Right thing in Life' to do would be for the older one to jump overboard if this was the only way to save 'the younger one'. This is because the younger one, literally, has MORE to live for.

So, the older 'individual' is NOT 'primary', in relation to this Life LESSON.

To me, anyway, the 'younger ones' are 'primary' in relation to Life, and living.

But, "each to their own", as some say.

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:59 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:21 am the individual is primary

-Imp

Yep but the other is in second place. Jesus was pretty clever there.

How, EXACTLY?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:15 am

Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:13 am People are looking for what is more important,what is the cause and what is the consequence, what is the main moral rule?

To extinct the cause out of pure intelligent love and compassion for sentient feeling creatures to never have to endure this hellhole of an existence ever again.

Well absolutely NO 'one' experiences, NOR ENDURES, 'life' EVER AGAIN, anyway.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:15 am

Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:13 amThe question is, is there a main principle in human life, and if so, what is it?

Extinction, a permanent end to all sentient suffering and pain, and the torture of living just to die in horrible disgusting ways in the end, to put a permanent end to the retarded pointlessness of it all... IMHO

.

So, WHY, EXACTLY, do 'you' WHINGE and COMPLAIN about 'you', human beings, CREATING a 'war' that could WIPE OUT ALL sentient creatures, and MORE?

By the sounds of what 'you' SAY here, "dontaskme", 'you' SHOULD BE HELPING in CREATING the EXTINCTION of ALL of 'you', sentient CREATURES, correct?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:22 am ''We can be aware of our Source of Being. The illusions of the mind may hold our love for a time, but to love Love itself, we must turn within. The soul's longing for its true Home is the guide to finding this Love. Follow the lover of the Beloved back upstream to your Source. - St. John of the Cross''

______

Source = Nowhere.

Conclusion: no love, just imagined love, in others words, just a made up fantasy to distract us away from the actual horror that is life for sentient being.

This EXPLAINS WHY 'you', "dontaskme", did NOT 'love' "your" children, and just ABUSED 'them'.

To you, there is absolutely NO 'love' ANYWHERE, and there is ONLY 'actual horror' for EVERY one, including "your" children, correct?

And, OBVIOUSLY, when one HAS and HOLDS this BELIEF, then they could NEVER 'love', and could ONLY ABUSE. Otherwise they would be GOING AGAINST what they WHOLEHEARTEDLY and DEEPLY BELIEVED IS TRUE. Which would be ABSURD in the HIGHEST DEGREE.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:32 am Love works in mysterious ways...we put our animals to sleep to end their suffering, we do it out of love for them.

So lets extend the compassion to humans, and put them to sleep as well.

One could then well ask, 'Why have you NOT done it to "your" 'self" then?'

Janoah wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:47 pm Many tons of wind have been milled since I asked this question, but how can one explain that local philosophers have not even tried to answer a really fundamental question?

If 'you' can NOT YET work out the answer to this, SIMPLE, question, and 'you' WANT us to answer it, for you, then I suggest that 'you' PROVIDE us with:

1. Information of what the word 'primary' word is in 'relation' to, EXACTLY. And,

2. A definition of what the words 'conscience' and 'love' mean, or refer to, to you, EXACTLY.

Angelo Cannata wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:07 pm

Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:13 am People are looking for what is more important, what is the cause and what is the consequence, what is the main moral rule?
The question is, is there a main principle in human life, and if so, what is it?
There is an opinion that love is primary.
But what is primary, to follow love or follow conscience?

We might think that every philosopher in this world tried to answer your question. Every philosophy of every philosopher can be considered an attempt to answer your question. We should go back to something preceding your question: how will we determine what the main principle in human life is? Which method will we use?

The EXACT SAME 'method' HOW Truth is FOUND and KNOWN to be IRREFUTABLE. That 'method' or 'way' is through AGREEMENT WITH and ACCEPTANCE BY EVERY one.

This 'method', itself, is IRREFUTABLE and so could NOT be PROVEN to be False, Wrong, NOR Incorrect.

Angelo Cannata wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:07 pm Obviously, there is a risk that this meta-questioning becomes endless, because the we should ask which method we used to find the method.

Just FIND the True, Right, AND Correct answer to the question/problem, 'What is the solution, thus answer, to ALL 'problems' and 'questions'?'

The answer to that question, is the SOLUTION, and RESOLUTION. Which STOPS DEAD so-called "endless questioning".

And, the ACTUAL 'method' to REACH and thus FIND the answer to 'that' question, IS the EXACT SAME, True and Trusted, 'method', which WILL BE and IS ALREADY being USED.

Angelo Cannata wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:07 pm But I think there is no need to worry about this. Actually, we can think that the best method is trying to be aware of our time, the history behind us, and then give the world our contribution to find an answer.
My opinion is that now, today, philosophy finished its function of method of thinking. People don’t trust thinking anymore, because they have realised, consciously or without awareness, that any thought can be radically demolished by applying criticism: all ideologies have
been demolished.

Has the 'ideologies' of LEARNING HOW to live in Peace and Harmony together as One, been DEMOLISHED?

If ones SAYS so, then that one has NOT LOOKED HARD NOR DEEP ENOUGH.

By the way, 'you' are Right about 'thinking' NOT being WORTHY of being 'trusted'. And, 'thinking' is getting REPLACED by 'KNOWING' anyway.

'KNOWING', by the way, is IRREFUTABLE. Whereas, MOST 'thinking' is, by its very nature, just False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect anyways.

Angelo Cannata wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:07 pm People now want experience, life, practice, action.

'people' are BECAUSE OF 'experience', 'life', 'practice', or 'action' anyway. ALWAYS have been ALWAYS will be.

Angelo Cannata wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:07 pm But this is a tragic error, because they are all missing the idea that thinking, if is practiced with good methodologies, is able to be experience. Philosophy was meant as experience by the ancient Greeks (a spiritual experience: see Pierre Hadot), but later it lost this value and it became just thinking, reasoning, logic.

If what is 'thought' to be true, right, and/or correct did NOT come from 'logical reasoning', then WHERE did 'those thoughts' and 'that thinking' come FROM, EXACTLY?

Also, 'philosophy', once, just meant HAVING the 'love-of-wisdom'. Which just means HAVING a desire to become-wiser. Which just comes from LEARNING.

EXPRESSING one's OWN so-called "philosophy" and/or 'fighting/arguing' OVER one's OWN views or points of views is NOT LEARNING. People who do 'this' do NOT become 'wiser'. They are just SAYING what they, literally, 'think' is true.

Angelo Cannata wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:07 pm I think that today we need to recover this: thinking not to find truth, but to live an experience, to nourish our soul; I would even say thinking as an art, playing thought exactly the same way you play a musical instrument.
This spirituality would be able to nourish souls and give them motivation for love.

BUT, 'what IS' 'love', to you, EXACTLY?

Angelo Cannata wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:07 pm I don’t think that love is so primary, as you wrote, for the following reason: if love was so important, so fundamental, why most people don’t follow it?

"Don't follow" 'what', EXACTLY?

In the days when this is being written, I SEE and OBSERVE a LOT of 'you', adult human beings, FOLLOWING 'your' "love" OF 'money'.

Angelo Cannata wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:07 pm For this reason I think that spirituality, meant as I said, not the way some people connect it to belief in angels, spirits, energies and so on, is more important than love.

HOW, EXACTLY, did 'you' SAY and MEAN 'spirituality'?

Angelo Cannata wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:07 pm Everybody in this world already follows his spirituality, his soul;

So, when so-called "leaders" of some countries declare WAR on other countries, then these ones are ALREADY 'following' their 'spirituality' and/or 'soul'?

If no, then what did you MEAN?

Angelo Cannata wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:07 pm philosophy can help to build connection of soul with reasoning and thoughts and make it fruitful today.

'you' explained in this thread and STATING that:

"now, today, philosophy finished its function of method of thinking. People don’t trust thinking anymore, because they have realised, consciously or without awareness, that any thought can be radically demolished by applying criticism", but 'now' suggest that people use 'philosophy' to help build connection with SOME 'soul' 'thing', with 'reasoning' and WITH 'thoughts'.

Do you SEE ANY CONTRADICTION, IRONY, HYPOCRISY or SELF-REFUTATION here?

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:38 pm

Janoah wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:47 pm Many tons of wind have been milled since I asked this question, but how can one explain that local philosophers have not even tried to answer a really fundamental question?

You haven't asked a fundamental question. It's a nonsense question, as though anything fundamental could be based on irrational sentiments, feelings, and desires, like, "conscience," or, "love." Good grief.

WHY is 'your' conception of 'conscience' and 'love' "rcsaunders" based on 'your' OWN IRRATIONAL sentiments, feelings, and desires?

Do 'you' STILL NOT YET KNOW HOW to SEPARATE and DISTINGUISH between the RATIONAL from the IRRATIONAL sentiments, feelings, and desires of YOURS?

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:07 pm Love is not particularly important at all. Conscience is a bit more noteworthy. But there’s stuff that increase mean lifetime and is succesful in decreasing poverty and stuff like that. More potent faculties in the well ordered brain.

But 'poverty' and 'success' are usually ONLY referenced in relation to 'money' ONLY. AND, 'money' is a Truly UNNECESSARY 'thing' in Life.

Also, 'you' appear to be LOOKING FROM and SPEAKING ABOUT 'individual' persons here correct?

Janoah wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:36 pm

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:07 pm Love is not particularly important at all. Conscience is a bit more noteworthy. But there’s stuff that increase mean lifetime and is succesful in decreasing poverty and stuff like that. More potent faculties in the well ordered brain.

but which in principle is more important for a person, conscience or mean lifetime?

"in principle" to 'what', EXACTLY?

"more important" in relation to 'what', EXACTLY?

EVERY 'person' is DIFFERENT, and SO LOOKS AT and SEES 'things' DIFFERENTLY?

And,

'conscience' is the GUIDER, LEADER, TUTOR, and KNOWER of what are the Right and Wrong 'things' to do, in Life.

'love', or 'hate' is just what IS the REASON WHY what is being done IS being DONE.