Philosophy Now Forum

simplicity wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:49 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:49 pm There is no meaning in life. Have you ever experienced that? Some take responsibility because life/society dictates it to them. Others don't take responsibility and get trashed by life/society.

There is meaning everywhere if you choose to see [accept] it.

Could you please give an example?

simplicity wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:41 pm

stevie wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:57 am Some individuals may impute meaning to their lives through taking on responsibilities but I don't think that this approach can be generally valid. First of all the premise that there should be meaning isn't generally valid and second even if someone is seeking a satisfactory idea of "meaning" why shouldn't she/he be successful without taking on responsibilities?

Observe people who refuse to take on responsibility. They are miserable. The narcissism that is so pervasive in Western culture present a perfect petri dish to study folks who were raised without any sense of responsibility. They are a mess.

What kind of success can be had in a life without meaning?

I think there is a difference between 'not taking on responsibilities' and 'to refuse to take on responsibilities'. People who seek meaning through taking on responsibilities may also be seeking responsibilities while those who do not seek meaning through taking on responsibilities may not be seeking or even be indifferent towards responsiblities without necessarily refusing to take on responsibilities in case the mere necessities of everyday life require this at times.
I cannot confirm that people who refuse to take on responsibility are generally miserable and even people who seek meaning through taking on responsibilities may be miserable e.g. because not being successful.
The kind of success in a life without meaning depends on the individual because what is considered to be success depends on the individual as what is considered to be meaning depends on the individual and the presence or absence of desire for meaning depends on the individual. E.g. someone may be happy due to not having to take on responsibilities and consider this to be success and not be concerned with meaning at all.

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:24 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:49 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:49 pm There is no meaning in life. Have you ever experienced that? Some take responsibility because life/society dictates it to them. Others don't take responsibility and get trashed by life/society.

There is meaning everywhere if you choose to see [accept] it.

Could you please give an example?

Look at any mirror.

simplicity wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:35 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:24 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:49 pm
There is meaning everywhere if you choose to see [accept] it.

Could you please give an example?

Look at any mirror.

I look at it and I didn't find any meaning.

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:24 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:49 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:49 pm There is no meaning in life. Have you ever experienced that? Some take responsibility because life/society dictates it to them. Others don't take responsibility and get trashed by life/society.

There is meaning everywhere if you choose to see [accept] it.

Could you please give an example?

But how could you even see [accept] there is meaning everywhere, or even anywhere, when you obviously choose to only see [accept] there is NO meaning in life?

It would not be possible to give you an example, because you have already chosen to not look at, look for, see, [nor accept] meaning anywhere in life.

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:48 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:35 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:24 pm
Could you please give an example?

Look at any mirror.

I look at it and I didn't find any meaning.

Give me some examples of some things for which you take responsibility.

stevie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:29 am People who seek meaning through taking on responsibilities may also be seeking responsibilities while those who do not seek meaning through taking on responsibilities may not be seeking or even be indifferent towards responsibilities without necessarily refusing to take on responsibilities in case the mere necessities of everyday life require this at times.

That's quite the sentence.

Meaning is what happens when you take responsibility. What would be the point of taking responsibility otherwise?

It's one of the true differences between childhood [adolescence] and adulthood. Children do things because they want to...adults do things because they have to [otherwise, they are better referred to as adult-children].

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:12 am

stevie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:29 am People who seek meaning through taking on responsibilities may also be seeking responsibilities while those who do not seek meaning through taking on responsibilities may not be seeking or even be indifferent towards responsibilities without necessarily refusing to take on responsibilities in case the mere necessities of everyday life require this at times.

That's quite the sentence.

Meaning is what happens when you take responsibility. What would be the point of taking responsibility otherwise?

It's one of the true differences between childhood [adolescence] and adulthood. Children do things because they want to...adults do things because they have to [otherwise, they are better referred to as adult-children].

The EXACT SAME things are NEEDED by adult and child. EVERY thing else are just wants.

If you were Honest and OPEN enough to LOOK INTO what you do, then what will be discovered is that what you do is because of 'want', and NOT 'need' at all.

simplicity wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:54 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:34 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:15 am Assuming responsibility is what gives meaning to life.

Assuming responsibility is not the only thing that gives meaning to life. Love gives meaning to life. Love is not a responsibility.

Love is not a responsibility? I am not sure too many folks would agree with you there.

To me, love is The Ultimate responsibility [more than life itself] which is why it give folks the most meaning in their lives.

You don't seem to bother to research the origin of the 'love' impulse.

Love encompasses a range of strong and positive emotional and mental states, from the most sublime virtue or good habit, the deepest interpersonal affection, to the simplest pleasure.[1][2]
An example of this range of meanings is that the love of a mother differs from the love of a spouse, which differs from the love of food.
Most commonly, love refers to a feeling of a strong attraction and emotional attachment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love

To ensure the survival of the species, most of the original species were "programmed" to produce large numbers to increase the chances of the survival of the species.

Subsequently as animals get more complex the number of offsprings produced got lesser and lesser and required the attention of the mother or parents to take care of the offsprings till they are matured to be on their own.

To ensure there is bonding and care, these parents are 'programmed' with the oxytocin hormones.

Oxytocin is a peptide hormone and neuropeptide normally produced in the hypothalamus and released by the posterior pituitary.[3] It plays a role in social bonding, reproduction, childbirth, and the period after childbirth. Wiki

It is oxytocin that drive a crocodile mother [of the dinosaur age] to protect its offsprings without eating them till they are old enough to swim away. Thereafter when the oxytocin had worn off, the croc will likely kill and eat their own offsprings. All these activities are reducible to the survival of the individual[s] and therefrom the species.

Further up the evolutionary ladder, the oxytocin program veered into more complex bonding and nurturing plus partnership, kinship, etc.
Thereafter these evolved as emotions of bonding in the higher primates and then to the love emotions in homo-sapiens.
These emotions of love are all reducible to the survival of the individual[s] and therefrom interdependent with the species.

From the primary circuits of the love emotions human has evolved with more complex secondary circuits of love, bonding, attractions, etc. But these are essentially reducible to the survival of the species and interdependently with the individuals.

In a way, this impulse of love is also fundamentally blind as the common saying 'love is blind' that end with all sort of sufferings. In addition this attraction is also extendable to the love of evil by some deviants.

For good or evil, the love impulse is reducible to the survival of the species and interdependently with the individuals.

This is why it is so critical to understand the mechanisms involved in this primal impulse so that they be directed to only good [morality] as much as possible. This is not an impossible task in the future given the current trend of the exponential expansion of knowledge and technology we are riding on at present.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:42 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:24 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:49 pm
There is meaning everywhere if you choose to see [accept] it.

Could you please give an example?

But how could you even see [accept] there is meaning everywhere, or even anywhere, when you obviously choose to only see [accept] there is NO meaning in life?

It would not be possible to give you an example, because you have already chosen to not look at, look for, see, [nor accept] meaning anywhere in life.

Where? I cannot find any meaning in life.

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:05 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:48 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:35 pm
Look at any mirror.

I look at it and I didn't find any meaning.

Give me some examples of some things for which you take responsibility.

For example, I take the shower since I smell bad otherwise. The same for other things. If I don't take responsibility then life/society punishes me.

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:06 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:05 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:48 pm
I look at it and I didn't find any meaning.

Give me some examples of some things for which you take responsibility.

For example, I take the shower since I smell bad otherwise. The same for other things. If I don't take responsibility then life/society punishes me.

So hygiene gives meaning to life?

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:05 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:42 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:24 pm
Could you please give an example?

But how could you even see [accept] there is meaning everywhere, or even anywhere, when you obviously choose to only see [accept] there is NO meaning in life?

It would not be possible to give you an example, because you have already chosen to not look at, look for, see, [nor accept] meaning anywhere in life.

Where? I cannot find any meaning in life.

We ALREADY KNOW this. Because you have ALREADY INFORMED us of this.

I was just POINTING OUT that NO one could SHOW you ANY meaning in Life, NOR where there is ACTUAL meaning in Life, BECAUSE you have ALREADY DECIDED that there is NO meaning in Life.

NO one can SHOW NOR REVEAL ANY thing to you, which you ALREADY BELIEVE WHOLEHEARTEDLY does NOT exist.

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:06 pm If I don't take responsibility then life/society punishes me.

Exactly. There is great incentive to acting like an adult.

Meaning can take many different forms. OTOH, a lack of meaning is ALWAYS the same.

I believe you are looking for some kind of profound meaning in things whereas reality suggests that you will find all the meaning you will ever need in everyday things.

Here's a few rules I try to live by...
1. DON'T worry. It doesn't help.
2. Do your best ALL THE TIME.
3. Leave EVERYTHING better than you found it.
4. Help others when you can but do not create dependency.

Meaning in life is just doing ordinary every day things with purpose. Once you get your own act together, you can help others...which will give your life GREAT meaning.

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:10 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:06 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:05 am
Give me some examples of some things for which you take responsibility.

For example, I take the shower since I smell bad otherwise. The same for other things. If I don't take responsibility then life/society punishes me.

So hygiene gives meaning to life?

No. I mean I take the responsibility since otherwise life/society punishes me. I have no Idea what the meaning is.