Philosophy Now Forum

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:36 pm I vividly remember how it unfolded.

As a child, I had acceptance for my arrival and participation in this world.
It seemed completely natural to love and to feel connection with nature.
Other humans were strange, unpredictable animals to be navigated around. But I cared about them.
This life of such immense wonder, intrigued me to explore.
The journey was unfolding naturally...
and then the adults told me about their god.
They acted intoxicated. Some of them, even... desperate, needy, ferocious.
The stories they told were absurd. They clearly embellished and used the stories to their liking.
Why were they doing this, I wondered?
Why were they forgetting their natural state, and claiming to be wretched?
They taught me...
...about evil and hate.
...condemnation.
...eternal punishment.
...judgment to distinguish between divine or wicked.
...how to be a Christian soldier.
...memorization.
...their idea of a god.
They claimed to teach me how to be a good person too...
...but I actually already knew that.

Whatever anyone thinks a god is, is their own trip. If they personally find value in it, then that is for them. But they should not be imposing it on anyone else... that includes society, institutions, and children. It is an abusive form of mind control and distortion when imposing it on children who are such precious natural beings who should be protected from the needy and fearful distortions of adults. There should be an age restriction for religious gatherings... just as there is with any other intoxication or vividly inappropriate material/environment for young minds.

Looking into the eyes of a child, we can see the divine. Mankind seemingly wants to own that and control it. Having survived that path I was pushed onto, I now focus (as an adult) on connecting with my original nature as much as possible. There are no rules of men. There is awareness -– and choices are made from that awareness. No god needed. Seeing and appreciating the naturally divine is more extraordinary than anything created by man. Man’s creations can be wonderful and fantastic, but man does not own the divine -– and it would surely be best for humans to stop mangling it.

What do you mean that you were divine? I agree that there must be an age limitation for religious teahing so the person can properly judge the teaching and accept/reject it.

"I was de vine before I was de grape before I was de sacrificial wine..."

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:38 pm "I was de vine before I was de grape before I was de sacrificial wine..."

-Imp

*

I was divine before people told me about their god

Ah yes, the wisdom of children. Last night Biden slept like a baby. He crapped in his diaper and cried all night because he missed the good son so much. Awwww. Isn’t he compassionate. That deserves a vote.

It’s funny. When were children conferred the crown of wisdom? When did people start to say, what would a child who knows nothing do in this situation?

Oy. Do us a favour and cut the greeting card crap or else shoot me now.

It probably happened when remedial courses became a popular way to increase university enrollment, and that began attracting the education majors.

Before I was deloused and de-ticked I was divinely free in nature, like an animal, and then I became human and endeavoured to persevere.

Divine means God-like.

However, for the secular folks divine has taken on the meaning of, really cool.

This key-lime pie for dessert at breakfast-time is simply divine. Here’s the rub. The part of each of us who hears this declaration, is really dumb. That’s right, dumb. It believes what each of us tells it, especially if said simply. Really ... slow ... and ... simple.

If you say, I am angry, you will act that way. If you say, this key-lime pie is God-like (divine), it will believe you, and thus pie becomes your God, and soon you won’t even have to declare it by voice. Your very being will shout it.

I was really cool before encountering divine people over the years who have realized an either intentional or unintentional God-like intent, through various traditions such as Christianity, who showed me the limitation of my reality-apprehension through their compassionate actions and words in the course of their daily events, and then I realized my own pettiness and shallow understanding of what makes the tickers tick, and what divine really means. You know who you are. Gracias.

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:40 pm What do you mean that you were divine?

I'm simply suggesting that we are born perfect and with connection to all else. (Seeking a creator to acquire that seems unnecessary.)

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:15 pm Ah yes, the wisdom of children. Last night Biden slept like a baby. He crapped in his diaper and cried all night because he missed the good son so much. Awwww.

Really, Walker (?)... do you have to crap everywhere you go, bringing it into this thread? Why don't you create your own thread to contain all the stupid and disgusting things in your head which no one cares to interact with? You are not funny or clever... you're just really stupid.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:47 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:40 pm What do you mean that you were divine?

I'm simply suggesting that we are born perfect and with connection to all else. (Seeking a creator to acquire that seems unnecessary.)

Perfect I don't know but children of course are not as corrupt as adults. They however need to seek the truth.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:54 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:15 pm Ah yes, the wisdom of children. Last night Biden slept like a baby. He crapped in his diaper and cried all night because he missed the good son so much. Awwww.

Really, Walker (?)... do you have to crap everywhere you go, bringing it into this thread? Why don't you create your own thread to contain all the stupid and disgusting things in your head which no one cares to interact with? You are not funny or clever... you're just really stupid.

A mortal shot.

To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;

Commentary: A divinely inspired fellow ... certainly beyond the capacity of a child.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:54 pmWhy don't you create your own thread to contain all the stupid and disgusting things in your head ...

Come join us in six land.

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:28 pm ... children of course are not as corrupt as adults ...

Perhaps not, but until they are around five, they are mostly uncivilized monsters and if they were not so damn cute would not be allowed to survive beyond two in any decent household.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:47 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:40 pm What do you mean that you were divine?

I'm simply suggesting that we are born perfect and with connection to all else. (Seeking a creator to acquire that seems unnecessary.)

But A Creator, obviously, ALREADY EXISTS. How else would have children come to be if there was no Creator?

Also, just because your own interpretation of 'a creator' is obviously incomplete and Wrong, this in no way means there is no Creator.

No one 'seeks a creator to acquire', as you suggest. Thee Creator just naturally exists. Some of us just know where to LOOK.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:31 pm The honesty of young children is well-known. They observe and see with a clarity, free of the programming of human education and beliefs... and for awhile, mostly free of ego. I think such clarity points to a natural (perhaps divine) state, that we all have access to... although it may become quite buried or abandoned or distorted throughout human life.

I believe you need to bracket divine as "divine" else it is literally theology i.e. related to a God.

If you note the development of the human fetus it has features of a simple-celled living things to fishes, reptiles, birds, mammals, primates and eventually to a new born baby but not yet a fully developed human adult.
As such the new-borns and young children's minds are closer to non-humans than those of an adult human.
It is noted, non-humans living entities do not have beliefs [conscious, etc.], egos, specific human mental capacities, thus do not have long term worries, anxieties, fear of death, etc. It is the same with human babies, toddlers, children.

But unfortunately [but obviously there are good reasons], ALL humans are programmed [as they grow older] to be endowed with self-awareness, ego, the capacity to believe and other specific human qualities.

One of the specific human qualities is ALL humans are "programmed" to be triggered with terrible PRIMAL fears upon the idea or threat of death to facilitate survival.

Now, with self-awareness [as programmed] and the knowledge of inevitable mortality, ALL humans are perpetually triggered with primal fears of death [as programmed] subconsciously [mostly] or consciously.
This dilemma produced terrible dissonances that force the majority to seek consonances to relieve the terrible pains [arising unconsciously or consciously].

Fortunately for the majority there is an instant balm to soothe and dissolve the dissonance, i.e. believing and clinging to a God [rationally it is an illusion, but believers don't give a damm] who promised instant salvation.

Re Normal Distribution, among the majority of believers, there are a % of the ugly, bad and evil prone. These are the ones who are insistent to impose their beliefs on others or even kill others who do not agree with them.

Actually, children who do not develop 'normally' into adulthood [having mental issues] may escaped that terrible dissonance, thus are like animals which are seemingly free and easy with no worries for the futures.

It is likely you are one of those lucky ones who managed to escape the clasp of the inherent dissonance due to various circumstantial reasons, thus is able to rationalize away from theism.
There are many who use conscious efforts [meditations, etc.] to develop a state where they can 'flow' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)] unconsciously with the rhythm of life spontaneously & effortlessly, etc. 'detachment' as in Buddhism.

The point is the lucky ones need to understand [& empathize] the situation of the unlucky ones who are entrapped naturally into theism. They need to contribute to ideas as to how to get theists out of that divine [literally] hole. Solutions are not likely to come within our generation but if we look seriously into it, there will be possibilities in the future.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:38 am

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:28 pm ... children of course are not as corrupt as adults ...

Perhaps not, but until they are around five, they are mostly uncivilized monsters and if they were not so damn cute would not be allowed to survive beyond two in any decent household.

I agree. I know a couple of children who are monsters. They tease other children to the point that they cry. They get what they want by crying...

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:38 am I believe you need to bracket divine as "divine" else it is literally theology i.e. related to a God.

Great post V.A.! Lots of sense in it.

Yes, I probably should have put quotes around "divine". Again I struggle with the limitations of language for my purposes: (this time) to express the "divine" being everywhere and throughout all, naturally... with no distinct, separate god.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:38 am The point is the lucky ones need to understand [& empathize] the situation of the unlucky ones who are entrapped naturally into theism. They need to contribute to ideas as to how to get theists out of that divine [literally] hole. Solutions are not likely to come within our generation but if we look seriously into it, there will be possibilities in the future.

It seems we are in a bit of a battle right now... as if a collective of humankind's egos are desperately and forcefully clinging to various ideas for control. It's a different "vibration" than what many others experience.

In other circumstances, and/or for people who are genuinely demonstrating a focus on being open and honest and seeking broader truths (not just claiming they are while also claiming to know it all), I do indeed have compassion. In this situation, however, I'm not so sure that it matters that much, because:

1) It doesn't seem that this "vibration" can hear or see anything else, and worse, it's like a drowning man who submerges (and claws at) any floating thing that comes within reach.

2) I consider that the struggle of this "vibration" may be so chaotic and crazy as a result of the energies that this era of humankind has built-up and become addicted to. And maybe it has to run its course and play itself out.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:08 pm 2) I consider that the struggle of this "vibration" may be so chaotic and crazy as a result of the energies that this era of humankind has built-up and become addicted to. And maybe it has to run its course and play itself out.

Son of a gun. What a coincidence.
And shouting in Spanish, no less.

More and more I just gots to wonder.

https://nypost.com/2021/09/24/crazed-ma ... o-be-shot/

Maybe someone on de plane, de plane, was reading Hallmark Greeting Cards and wouldn’t, or couldn't, stop the droning vibration.