Philosophy Now Forum

Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:32 amAnywhere where adults can make more money, in the days when this is being written, then they usually will not pass that up. But, I never mentioned anywhere that human beings are driven purely by greed. And, if anyone thinks or believes they are, then they are very sadly mistaken.

I agree. You are very sadly mistaken! After all you said it: "In one word, greed!" you said. Now, you don't think so? Make up your mind!

Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:32 amHuman beings used to not be greedy, and, in the future they will relearn how to not be again, and so will not be greedy again. But in the meanwhile adult human beings will keep being greedy, leading to the destruction of their one and only home, and thus leading to their own demise.

So, becoming extinct will teach them not to be greedy?

Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:32 amLuckily, however, human beings will make a change, for the better, once they learn how to, and, are on their "last legs", as they say.

So, poorer is better? I strongly disagree. Poverty is not romantic. It's painful, ugly and degrading.

Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:32 amAny, individual, human being who does not envision death in the near future will just keep doing what they are doing, even if it is to their own detriment. However, any human being who is on their "last legs" and is told that they are about to die, but were also told that there is something they could do, which was very simple and easy to do by the way, that would further their life, then they would want to hear it, and will want to do it. Human beings, collectively, are no different at all.

Fingers crossed, that's true. But I'm not so sure. I've seen people smoke and drink themselves to death.

Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:32 amSo, the closer we, collectively, become to our own demise, the more people will want to 'listen', and will want to 'change', for the better, and the more people that will want to do this. So, the more destruction we do to our one and only home, the sooner the True change, for the better, will come.

And by better you mean poorer - so tear down everything that's been built, so we can all be poor forever? That's the maddest thing I've ever heard - and yet it precisely summarises the dominant narrative on climate change!

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:04 pm

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:33 am Technologically, we could solve climate change. Why haven't we?

Solve what? Climate is always going to change. Some people worry about the way they believe the climate is changing now and they see it as a problem. Others who even agree with those same predicted changes are eagerly looking forward to them. Why should one group be able to force their preferences on others.

No one can predict the future. The fact is no one knows what the climate is going to do. Any measures taken to fix a problem that may or may not ever happen is absurd.

The problem is the, "we," in your question. Who is, "we?"

You are absolutely right, by the way, about unlimited resources and, "Malthusian pessimism." The latter is motivated entirely by social/political interests, not any interest in solving any problems.

Umm, yeah, they do know what the climate's going to do and it's doing it.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:57 am

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:04 pm

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:33 am Technologically, we could solve climate change. Why haven't we?

Solve what? Climate is always going to change. Some people worry about the way they believe the climate is changing now and they see it as a problem. Others who even agree with those same predicted changes are eagerly looking forward to them. Why should one group be able to force their preferences on others.

No one can predict the future. The fact is no one knows what the climate is going to do. Any measures taken to fix a problem that may or may not ever happen is absurd.

The problem is the, "we," in your question. Who is, "we?"

You are absolutely right, by the way, about unlimited resources and, "Malthusian pessimism." The latter is motivated entirely by social/political interests, not any interest in solving any problems.

Umm, yeah, they do know what the climate's going to do and it's doing it.

Different climate, but true enough.

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:55 am

Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:32 amAnywhere where adults can make more money, in the days when this is being written, then they usually will not pass that up. But, I never mentioned anywhere that human beings are driven purely by greed. And, if anyone thinks or believes they are, then they are very sadly mistaken.

I agree. You are very sadly mistaken! After all you said it: "In one word, greed!" you said. Now, you don't think so? Make up your mind!

What???

You said, "Technologically, we could solve climate change. Why haven't we?

I said, In one word, 'greed'. Meaning WHY 'we' have not yet solved, so called, "climate change" is because of greed.

But I NEVER said anywhere that human beings are driven PURELY by greed. Greed is why you continue to cause "climate change", and thus why you have not yet solved "climate change".

There is NO contradiction here.

Human beings are driven, purely, by other things, and thus not driven, purely, by greed.

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:55 am

Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:32 amHuman beings used to not be greedy, and, in the future they will relearn how to not be again, and so will not be greedy again. But in the meanwhile adult human beings will keep being greedy, leading to the destruction of their one and only home, and thus leading to their own demise.

So, becoming extinct will teach them not to be greedy?

This here is an example of just how quickly people JUMP to assumptions and/or conclusions. Which, by the way, again, has nothing whatsoever to do with what I was saying, and meaning.

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:55 am

Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:32 amLuckily, however, human beings will make a change, for the better, once they learn how to, and, are on their "last legs", as they say.

So, poorer is better? I strongly disagree. Poverty is not romantic. It's painful, ugly and degrading.

LOL I NEVER said ANY thing like this, let alone EVERY even just thought ANY thing like this.

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:55 am

Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:32 amAny, individual, human being who does not envision death in the near future will just keep doing what they are doing, even if it is to their own detriment. However, any human being who is on their "last legs" and is told that they are about to die, but were also told that there is something they could do, which was very simple and easy to do by the way, that would further their life, then they would want to hear it, and will want to do it. Human beings, collectively, are no different at all.

Fingers crossed, that's true. But I'm not so sure. I've seen people smoke and drink themselves to death.

And the last sentence is my point. Human beings will keep on doing, even if it is to their own detriment.

But unlike an individual smoking and drinking "one's" 'self" "to death", once the cancer, and/or addiction, has set in to much, then it is to late. However, human beings, collectively, ALWAYS have a NEW generation following, where the cancer NOR addiction has yet set in.

Once adults learn WHY they do what they do, which causes their demise, and Truly want to do BEST for their children, then ALL of this can be turned around for the better.

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:55 am

Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:32 amSo, the closer we, collectively, become to our own demise, the more people will want to 'listen', and will want to 'change', for the better, and the more people that will want to do this. So, the more destruction we do to our one and only home, the sooner the True change, for the better, will come.

And by better you mean poorer - so tear down everything that's been built, so we can all be poor forever?

LOL Just about EVERY one JUMPS to this ASSUMPTION and/or CONCLUSION. Which could NOT be further from thee ACTUAL Truth of things here.

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:55 am That's the maddest thing I've ever heard - and yet it precisely summarises the dominant narrative on climate change!

And YET I NEVER even said ANY thing like that.

There is no such thing as climate change.
But I have no time, ATM, to talk since I have to go out to buy a dinghy since the swim to work yesterday took far too long.

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:20 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:55 pm the science said the ice caps would be melted by 2000 and New York would be under water and all the polar bears would drown...

-Imp

jayjacobus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:53 pm It is not even clear what causes global warming. There is a correlation between CO2 and temperature increasing but there is also a correlation between manmade EMF radiation and increasing temperatures. Which is it? Scientist can test the effect that each "cause" has on a room but they don't.

In addition the rise in temperature could be caused by increased solar activity.

The scientists seem to be sleeping at the wheel (if they can even find the wheel).

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:17 pm
This thread is not about you and your beliefs.

It's about solving climate change.

If you don't believe climate change is real, I have no interest in convincing you it is.

Climate change is real but you cannot convince me that it isn't. So believe what you want but you haven't solved anything.

Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:41 amAnd YET I NEVER even said ANY thing like that.

So, what are you saying then?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:52 am There is no such thing as climate change. But I have no time, ATM, to talk since I have to go out to buy a dinghy since the swim to work yesterday took far too long.

There is such a thing as climate change - it happens every-time I crank up the AC!

We're all going to die lolz!

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:53 pm

Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:41 amAnd YET I NEVER even said ANY thing like that.

So, what are you saying then?

A word of advice - if you want your thread to be about climate change and your preferred sci-fi fix for it, you need to not engage with Age.

He has a one track mind dedicated to the "simple solution" he has for all of the word's problems, not just that one. He will make your thread be about that, and yet you will never understand what this thing he is selling even is; he will only tell you that you have failed to understand because you aren't asking open enough questions. If you want to poke that turd, let him hijcack a stupid thread about something you aren't interested in, and do so there, all conversations with him are the same anyway irrespective of OP.

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:56 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:52 am There is no such thing as climate change. But I have no time, ATM, to talk since I have to go out to buy a dinghy since the swim to work yesterday took far too long.

There is such a thing as climate change - it happens every-time I crank up the AC!

We're all going to die lolz!

It's the AC that is causing it globally! When you cool down all that heat goes into the atmosphere.

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:00 pmEveryone can predict the future. The difficult part is to do so accurately. To accurately predict the future, you have to understand the causes of effects. The physical causes of climate change are fairly simple. The thicker the atmosphere, the more heat it holds. The principle was first used to explain the surprisingly high surface temperature of Venus. So, are you saying the thick atmosphere of Venus isn't the reason for the unusually high surface temperature? Are you saying that, if we make earth's atmosphere thicker - the temperature won't change?

Obviously you are not a student of history as looking rearward reveals that few have had any clue as to what the future holds because 99% of what makes the future what it is has not yet occurred. Factor that in with the notion that our pea brains are capable of exceedingly little as well as having absolutely no access to Reality what-so-ever, revealed by the idea that our perception exists in the past [time lag].

In a system as intellectually complex as the planet's thermodynamics [an infinite number of inputs], do you really believe that we can predict future weather patterns? In my life, the "experts" said we were going to have another ice age and now we are all going to fry. Seems like they have covered all the bases in a short period of time.

People seem to worry about everything except what they can direct control [their own behavior].

Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:41 amAnd YET I NEVER even said ANY thing like that.

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:53 pmSo, what are you saying then?

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:19 pmA word of advice - if you want your thread to be about climate change and your preferred sci-fi fix for it, you need to not engage with Age.

What do you mean "sci fi fix"?
Is the earth not a big ball of molten rock containing a virtually limitless amount of heat energy?
What's sci fi about that?
Is it not possible to extract carbon from the atmosphere - if you have such energy to spend?
Is it not possible to produce hydrogen from sea water, desalinate and irrigate, recycle - if you have the energy to spend?

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:56 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:52 am There is no such thing as climate change. But I have no time, ATM, to talk since I have to go out to buy a dinghy since the swim to work yesterday took far too long.

There is such a thing as climate change - it happens every-time I crank up the AC!

We're all going to die lolz!

Wow, you're an intelligent one....'lolz'....

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:23 pmIt's the AC that is causing it globally! When you cool down all that heat goes into the atmosphere.

If you ran AC from clean energy, the heat transfer alone would not be an issue globally. The chemical refrigerants used in AC systems can be a hazard. CFC's and whatnot, but that's hole in the ozone layer, not climate change per se. CFC's have been banned globally - which is kind of encouraging to those of us concerned with climate change, that global action was taken to solve an immediate threat. Limitless clean energy from magma could replace fossil fuels - and then, running the AC would not create carbon emissions. You could use it all day long, no problem.

Vitruvius wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:00 pmEveryone can predict the future. The difficult part is to do so accurately. To accurately predict the future, you have to understand the causes of effects. The physical causes of climate change are fairly simple. The thicker the atmosphere, the more heat it holds. The principle was first used to explain the surprisingly high surface temperature of Venus. So, are you saying the thick atmosphere of Venus isn't the reason for the unusually high surface temperature? Are you saying that, if we make earth's atmosphere thicker - the temperature won't change?

simplicity wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:48 pmObviously you are not a student of history as looking rearward reveals that few have had any clue as to what the future holds because 99% of what makes the future what it is has not yet occurred. Factor that in with the notion that our pea brains are capable of exceedingly little as well as having absolutely no access to Reality what-so-ever, revealed by the idea that our perception exists in the past [time lag].

That's untrue. I could explain at great length how and why this kind of subjectivist bullshit is promoted by philosophy, but it would then appear I'm responding to your accusation of ignorance by demonstrating my historical knowledge. Instead, I'll give you the evolutionary explanation of why subjectivism is wrong. If our senses were not accurate to reality, we could not have survived.

simplicity wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:48 pmIn a system as intellectually complex as the planet's thermodynamics [an infinite number of inputs], do you really believe that we can predict future weather patterns?

Future weather patterns? Yes, I watch the weather predicted everyday on TV for the next day or two, with a declining degree of confidence over time. What we are talking about however is climate change - and climate isn't weather. We can predict climate trends.

simplicity wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:48 pmIn my life, the "experts" said we were going to have another ice age and now we are all going to fry. Seems like they have covered all the bases in a short period of time.

I believe that's an urban myth based on a media misrepresentation of science. Or at least, every-time someone has mentioned this, and I've challenged them to produce the paper - no-one has ever done so. It's just a right wing, climate change denial talking point - throwing flak in the air to hide the reality, and excuse continued fossil fuel use.

simplicity wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:48 pmPeople seem to worry about everything except what they can direct control [their own behavior].

Then control yourself. You've been told, whether climate is real - is not up for debate here. If you want to discuss that topic, start your own thread.
This thread is about solving climate change.