For the discussion of all things philosophical.
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With the exception of the abortion option, nobody said anything about exterminating anybody. This is a common hysterical claim used to derail threads on this topic.
Women's biological role is to have and nurture children, their bodies are designed for this purpose. The biological role of men is to compete with other men to weed out the weak genes, and present the strongest genes for reproduction.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:59 pmYou need to demonstrate that violence is in some way a property of boys and not girls,
No, we don't need that. We need only show that we have no known method of getting rid of just violent men, thus all men must go. I completely agree that most men are peaceful. That doesn't help us here unfortunately.but to do that would need to get rid of that "vast majority" and replace it with "all",
Look, I told you what was wrong with a poorly constructed argument you presented that lacked a proper link between premise and conclusion. you know, very basic philosophy stuff. You can address that problem or you can fail. But if you try to drag this sideways into a discussion of your unfounded teleological theory of biological determinism I might not bother. None of what you wrote there is viable either as an answer to my prior criticism nor on its own grounds.Oakley wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:30 pmWomen's biological role is to have and nurture children, their bodies are designed for this purpose. The biological role of men is to compete with other men to weed out the weak genes, and present the strongest genes for reproduction.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:59 pmYou need to demonstrate that violence is in some way a property of boys and not girls,
These roles have been in place for millions of years before we were even human, which is why they can't be meaningfully edited by social methods like religion, morality etc.
No, we don't need that. We need only show that we have no known method of getting rid of just violent men, thus all men must go. I completely agree that most men are peaceful. That doesn't help us here unfortunately.but to do that would need to get rid of that "vast majority" and replace it with "all",
People tend to characterize arguments once they realize they can't defeat them. You're going emotional almost immediately, diving straight in to male ego head butting, thus illustrating the point I'm making about men.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pmbecause your argument was pretty dumb and can't actually be fixed.
Yeah, I suppose you can try that move and see if I care. But you presented an argument where the premise can be true and the conclusion can be false without contradiction, thus the argument was bad. I have no need to get emotional at all and I can assure you that the only emotion that is creeping up on me right now is boredom.Oakley wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:51 pmPeople tend to characterize arguments once they realize they can't defeat them. You're going emotional almost immediately, diving straight in to male ego head butting, thus illustrating the point I'm making about men.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pmbecause your argument was pretty dumb and can't actually be fixed.
Most of the world could only dream about access to lab facilities.Oakley wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:22 pmI'm male.
As for reproduction, I can see these possibilities so far.
1) We're entering an age when more babies will be made in the lab, so as to prevent genetic diseases, and to select for certain traits, such as gender. This is coming for sure, but scaling it up to include the whole population is very challenging.
Where do I sign up??
2) A tiny number of men can impregnate a huge number of women. So if we were willing to settle for far less men, no new technology is needed.
Eh?
3) Abortion.
Women are perfectly capable of inventing and using new weapons. And the more tach they get, they less agression is needed to use them. I understand that women make excellent drone operators. Which brings me back to the bit of my objection you have not dealt with here on this thread. Women are violent too. Communist armies in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Russia have all emplyed women with excellent results. Even now the West is beginning to induct women in to the military on active duty.
We should also turn your question around and see the other side of it. An ever accelerating knowledge explosion is giving violent men ever more power to generate chaos.
Men are not going to volunteer to end the career of men.
If we don't do something radical like this how does the species, or at least civilization, continue?
It's not crazy. There have been a few sci-fi stories that have investigated this possibility. My problem with it is threefold. Practicality and implementation on the one hand, but the fallacy that it is based on the view that women are not violent, or a lack of imagining a society where ONLY women had to step into the boots of men. I would not be so different.
People typically this is a crazy idea that we have the option to ignore. I don't see it that way.
OF COURSE its possible. If, and WHEN, adult human beings are just being Truly Honest and OPEN, and CHANGE their wrong ways, then 'world peace' can be reached, and WILL BE achieved, VERY SIMPLY and VERY EASILY.
Where is the evidence that men commit the overwhelming vast majority of violence for thousands of years in EVERY time and place?
Are women NOT violent?
If, and WHEN, you discover, or learn, and understand WHY ALL adults do wrong, then you KNOW the cause, and then you can PREVENT ALL wrong from happening EVER again, and then 'world peace' can and WILL begin.Oakley wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:23 pm 3) In that case, most of the trillions upon trillions of dollars which are now spent committing violence and responding to it could be reinvested in life affirming projects like health care and education etc.
The result would be something which could fairly be called world peace, at least in comparison to the current reality.
Keep this idea in the back of your mind as you click through your news feed, watch TV news etc.
What 'price'?
You appear to be NOT REALLY looking forward to ANY thought, which OPPOSES your view here
But what would this achieve other than LESS of those who are pacifists existing, and MORE, percentage wise, of those who are violent?henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:35 pm How about a world without pacifists?
Instead of eliminatin' violent men, let's just eliminate those who object to violent men, and violence in general.
There are far fewer pacifists than violent men: logically, gettin' rid of pacifists would be far easier.
There IS.Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:20 pmAll of that seems true to me. Isn't it also true, however, that most of the inventions in life have been by men? Not that women can't do it, they just don't seem as inclined. Personally, I would gladly trade a high-tech world for a more peaceful one. I imagine that a world of women would be more peaceful. I do love male energy though... not the destructive or stupid stuff, but the wise, guiding, peaceful ones, which are more rare, and I wouldn't want a world without them.Oakley wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:23 pm 1) Men commit the overwhelming vast majority of violence, a consistent pattern going back thousands of years in every time and place.
2) If there were no men, there would be radically less violence.
3) In that case, most of the trillions upon trillions of dollars which are now spent committing violence and responding to it could be reinvested in life affirming projects like health care and education etc.
Perhaps there's some kind of unevolved defect that could somehow be resolved within those violent and closed mindsets.
Yes that CLOSED mentality is, literally, locked in a box, that box of BELIEFS, which creates and causes CONFUSION, which is continually fighting/raging against, sometimes to, literally, insane degrees.
There IS.
This is quite some wild ASSUMPTION going on here.Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:20 pm Tripping on mushrooms has been used for a long time by civilizations and wise men as a way to broaden perspective. Maybe that kind of mental expansion is another area that certain leagues/generations of men have distorted and rewritten (like religion) in order to claim control and authority, and keep everyone subservient to them. Fuckers.
One could say you are LOOKING ONLY AT the "wrong" here, which is OBVIOUSLY NOT the BIG and WHOLE True Picture.Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:20 pm It's really too bad. The world doesn't have to be this stupid. Perhaps such density sets the low standard that inspires an equally high standard to be manifested... which can also be seen widely throughout humankind. There are a lot of types of energy sharing this planet!Hopefully some major mental shift will ripple throughout humankind before this beautiful Earth and its inhabitants are further devastated.
But how could you fix some thing, which has NOT YET occurred?
And, conversely, to have women is to have "violent women", and to have "violent women" is to put the entire civilization at risk, could also be "argued". But to 'try to' "argue" either would just be a fruitless task, as they are NOT sound and valid arguments, anyway.
Oh, is this so 'you' can REMAIN ALIVE "yourself"?
And what purpose do you envision the penis and the testicles of some bodies were designed for, EXACTLY?Oakley wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:30 pmWomen's biological role is to have and nurture children, their bodies are designed for this purpose.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:59 pmYou need to demonstrate that violence is in some way a property of boys and not girls,
LOL Okay.
So, "peaceful men" do NOT help here, correct?Oakley wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:30 pm These roles have been in place for millions of years before we were even human, which is why they can't be meaningfully edited by social methods like religion, morality etc.
No, we don't need that. We need only show that we have no known method of getting rid of just violent men, thus all men must go. I completely agree that most men are peaceful. That doesn't help us here unfortunately.but to do that would need to get rid of that "vast majority" and replace it with "all",
OF COURSE, IN GENERAL, women are more loving and caring beings, but this is NOT because they have a vagina and milk producing breasts.Oakley wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:51 pmPeople tend to characterize arguments once they realize they can't defeat them. You're going emotional almost immediately, diving straight in to male ego head butting, thus illustrating the point I'm making about men.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pmbecause your argument was pretty dumb and can't actually be fixed.