Philosophy Now Forum

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 6:44 pm OK. So maybe NGOs that are non-profit are the answer?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 6:49 pm The morality in business isn't in them carin' but in them bein' honest.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 6:49 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 6:44 pm OK. So maybe NGOs that are non-profit are the answer?

I'm quite keen on some NGOs, Gary. I could tell you really good things about some.

But I have to admit that even NGOs have to be watched, and have to be held accountable by the public. Some have behaved rather unethically.

The problem is deeper: it's human nature itself that is not ultimately to be trusted. There are people who mean well; but that is so rare that it cannot be presumed. Most people are self-motivated, not driven by altruism.

The best we can do is to have stringent checks and balances in place, so that any abuses of power are quickly remediable. In that effort, things like market discipline are some help, because they impose quick consequences on misbehaviour. But there's no perfect solution, only provisional ones.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 6:57 pm How can we have checks and balances without elected officials and laws?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 7:05 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 6:57 pm How can we have checks and balances without elected officials and laws?

Well you were talking about NGOs.

An NGO must make its books public. They can be inspected by anyone, anytime. And NGOs that are funded by private charity have the discipline of accountability to their donors. If they don't, then their donations go away, fast. There are some checks and balances.

The danger with NGOs, however, is government funding. Because the government has far less incentive than private persons to care where and how the money is spent. Their interest is in optics and in self-promotion.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 7:13 pm Corporations donate to NGOs too at times. There have been problems with that too.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 7:54 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 7:13 pm Corporations donate to NGOs too at times. There have been problems with that too.

The corporations are actually pretty good. They tend to be subject to market and stockholder pressures already. Best of all, they cost the public purse nothing.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 8:05 pm Have you ever worked for a corporation, IC?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 1:20 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 8:05 pm Have you ever worked for a corporation, IC?

I've worked for private companies, and I've worked for the government. So I've seen both sides.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 12:10 pm Not ethical in my view.

In my view, health care should be treated as a human right and *there should be no cost to particular individuals period.

Ideally I'd have a completely different sort of economy overall. But even without that, the idea that someone might need medical care, medication, etc. but can't get it because they can't afford it is outrageous and highly unethical in my opinion.

Same thing in my view re housing, food, etc. and education as far as one might like to pursue it.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 2:13 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 12:10 pm Not ethical in my view.

In my view, health care should be treated as a human right and *there should be no cost to particular individuals period.

Ideally I'd have a completely different sort of economy overall. But even without that, the idea that someone might need medical care, medication, etc. but can't get it because they can't afford it is outrageous and highly unethical in my opinion.

Same thing in my view re housing, food, etc. and education as far as one might like to pursue it.

*So, who absorbs the cost of all this health care, housing, food, and education?

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:11 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 2:13 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 12:10 pm Not ethical in my view.

In my view, health care should be treated as a human right and *there should be no cost to particular individuals period.

Ideally I'd have a completely different sort of economy overall. But even without that, the idea that someone might need medical care, medication, etc. but can't get it because they can't afford it is outrageous and highly unethical in my opinion.

Same thing in my view re housing, food, etc. and education as far as one might like to pursue it.

*So, who absorbs the cost of all this health care, housing, food, and education?

Ideally, there is no cost. We don't have to organize society around money in any traditional sense. We can do tasks simply because they can get done, and a competitive incentive for doing the needed tasks would be that it's the way to acquire more scarce resources (such as homes in particular locations, fancier homes, etc.). We can do that without organizing so that anything is based on money.