Philosophy Now Forum

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=496632 time=1613490808 user_id=472]
what makes a war just or unjust?
[/quote]

That's a contingent question. But it is always a relevant variable.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:41 pm I don't think there's anything inhumane (or "unnatural" etc.) about killing in self-defense, killing when you're at war with someone, etc. I'd rather see it as "unnatural" to not defend oneself.

I think what I mean is that, as civilians, we usually don’t go around killing each other - not even in self-defence, really - and I believe (though I may be wrong in this) that for most people, killing someone (for whatever reason) has great (possibly negative) impact on their person.

I also think - and perhaps am proper wrong here - that if killing someone has no impact one, there may be reason for concern...? At least if one is a civilian.

Humbly
Hermit

Hermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:08 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:41 pm I don't think there's anything inhumane (or "unnatural" etc.) about killing in self-defense, killing when you're at war with someone, etc. I'd rather see it as "unnatural" to not defend oneself.

I think what I mean is that, as civilians, we usually don’t go around killing each other - not even in self-defence, really - and I believe (though I may be wrong in this) that for most people, killing someone (for whatever reason) has great (possibly negative) impact on their person.

I also think - and perhaps am proper wrong here - that if killing someone has no impact one, there may be reason for concern...? At least if one is a civilian.

Humbly
Hermit

If someone is attacking you so that your life is being threatened, I would hope that you'd act in self-defense, where that can include killing the person in question to neutralize the threat. Otherwise you may very well wind up dead.

It's contextual, depending on just how you're being threatened.

[quote="Terrapin Station" post_id=496655 time=1613492036 user_id=12582]
It's contextual, depending on just how you're being threatened.
[/quote]

What do you think about the least-harmful-means rule?

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:13 pm If someone is attacking you so that your life is being threatened, I would hope that you'd act in self-defense, where that can include killing the person in question to neutralize the threat. Otherwise you may very well wind up dead.

It's contextual, depending on just how you're being threatened.

Indeed. Many of us do end up dead.

What are your thoughts on pro’s/con’s with AI for soldiers?

Humbly
Hermit

[>What are your thoughts on pro’s/con’s with AI for soldiers?

If we have AI soldiers before we have no need for AI soldiers, Earth is fucked.

Hermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:35 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:13 pm If someone is attacking you so that your life is being threatened, I would hope that you'd act in self-defense, where that can include killing the person in question to neutralize the threat. Otherwise you may very well wind up dead.

It's contextual, depending on just how you're being threatened.

Indeed. Many of us do end up dead.

What are your thoughts on pro’s/con’s with AI for soldiers?

Humbly
Hermit

We already use AI (as it's currently instantiated) in many computer systems in the military. Re "AI soldiers" that would be fine as long as the AI is sufficiently advanced for it, which it isn't really at the moment, but maybe it won't be too long until that's the case.

Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:47 pm [>What are your thoughts on pro’s/con’s with AI for soldiers?

If we have AI soldiers before we have no need for AI soldiers, Earth is fucked.

Hi Advocate

Thank you for partaking. I’m interested in your thoughts on what may be considered a need for AI soldiers... What would some of those needs be for example?

Humbly
Hermit

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:49 pm We already use AI (as it's currently instantiated) in many computer systems in the military. Re "AI soldiers" that would be fine as long as the AI is sufficiently advanced for it, which it isn't really at the moment, but maybe it won't be too long until that's the case.

I can imagine, yes.

Thanks, by the way.

Though I absolutely do share some of the concerns already touched on by some (e.g. @attofishpi) under OP, I also am open to potential benefits - especially ethical ones - to an AI army.

From your perspective, could there be ethical benefits to one?

Impenitent wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:54 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:53 pm
what makes a war just or unjust?

the victors write the history and the morality

-Imp

Mostly - if not always - very true.
Thank you, Impenitent.

Humbly
Hermit

Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:07 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:53 pm what makes a war just or unjust?

That's a contingent question. But it is always a relevant variable.

that there ain't no answer to the question

again: what makes a war just or unjust?

you must have some notion, yeah?

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=496776 time=1613504082 user_id=472]
[quote=Advocate post_id=496648 time=1613491643 user_id=15238]
[quote="henry quirk" post_id=496632 time=1613490808 user_id=472]
what makes a war just or unjust?
[/quote]

That's a contingent question. But it is always a relevant variable.
[/quote]

that there ain't no answer to the question

again: what makes a war just or unjust?

you must have some notion, yeah?
[/quote]

Necessity. If there is no less harmful means of obtaining a justified objective, the means are justified. Now for the infinite regress questions in three... two... one...

Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:48 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:34 pm

Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:07 pm

That's a contingent question. But it is always a relevant variable.

that there ain't no answer to the question

again: what makes a war just or unjust?

you must have some notion, yeah?

Necessity. If there is no less harmful means of obtaining a justified objective, the means are justified. Now for the infinite regress questions in three... two... one...

necessity: I really need slave labor...next door, they got a surplus of healthy, young folk

advocate sez my cause is just, so it's WAR!

I trust you see that you still haven't answered the question

no infinite regress questions needed (just specificity, from you)

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:04 pm

Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:48 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:34 pm.../what makes a war just or unjust?
you must have some notion, yeah?

Necessity. If there is no less harmful means of obtaining a justified objective, the means are justified./...

necessity: I really need slave labor...next door, they got a surplus of healthy, young folk
advocate sez my cause is just, so it's WAR!
I trust you see that you still haven't answered the question
no infinite regress questions needed (just specificity, from you)

Hmm...

What if there’s an army about to invade and occupy your territory...? Or worse; what if they just intend to use your territory to get at your neighbour’s and occupy theirs...? You’d be stuck in the middle... their war may be carried out in your own backyard even.

And, if you were to conclude that some such scenario were to justify war, but you had a choice to either send living beings defend your territory or send AI to do it, what would be the pro’s/con’s of either choice...?

[quote="Hermit Philosopher" post_id=496795 time=1613506951 user_id=3927]
[quote="henry quirk" post_id=496791 time=1613505871 user_id=472]

[quote=Advocate post_id=496784 time=1613504892 user_id=15238]



Necessity. If there is no less harmful means of obtaining a justified objective, the means are justified./...[/quote]

necessity: [i]I really need slave labor...next door, they got a surplus of healthy, young folk
advocate sez my cause is just, so it's WAR![/i]
I trust you see that you still haven't answered the question
no infinite regress questions needed (just specificity, from you)[/quote]


Hmm...

What if there’s an army about to invade and occupy your territory...? Or worse; what if they just intend to use your territory to get at your neighbour’s and occupy theirs...? You’d be stuck in the middle... their war may be carried out in your own backyard even.

And, if you were to conclude that some such scenario were to justify war, but you had a choice to either send living beings defend your territory or send AI to do it, what would be the pro’s/con’s of either choice...?
[/quote]

You should know, you'll never get this lot to stay on topic.