the ethics of abortion

[bahman]

Abortion can Not be a one-woman decision because that would eliminate half the world's population from mapping it's future.

Those who wish to eliminate gender must invent an artificial womb straight away.

You are talking about killing a person?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

As i pointed out, it's extremely unethical to exclude males from the conversation.

[Redacted]
Where does 'ethics' come into the equation? Abortion has nothing to do with either 'morality' or 'ethics'. Abortion is a medical and biological 'issue'. A foetus is ENTIRELY the responsibility of the person carrying it--biological FACT. That's not an equal partnership. The offspring is also ENTIRELY the responsibility of the mother, unless the father CHOOSES otherwise. So the male is the only one who gets to choose?
[Redacted]

[Edited by iMod]

If not letting half the human race make all the decisions for the future of our species/world makes me a mysogenist, then i guess only mysogenists are rational people. If that's the definitions you're playing with, it means you're essentially evil by definition.

It's extremely sexist and anti-diversity to eliminate half of humanity's lived experience from consideration in the future of all. You're basically being fascist right now.

[Redacted] Sort out your 'quote' function. [Redacted]Just go to 'board preferences' 'edit posting defaults' and 'enable BBCode' .


[Edited by iMod]

[Veritas Aequitas]

Abortion is a moral and ethical issue.

Let say,
-abortion is permissible to ALL humans universally without conditions at all.
- it is also a possibility that for some rare conditions on Earth that all humans are driven impulsively to have abortion to their unborn.
- then the human species will be extinct in time.

But if say, if we adopt the justified true moral fact, i.e.
-abortion is not permissible to any human at all as a moral standard,
- then even if some rare conditions drive humans to abort impulsively, the moral standard is a stop gap measure that enable humans to think rationally to decide to abort or not.

What is more important with the moral standard of "no humans ought to abort an unborn"
is that the standard provide the avenue and catalyst for humanity to dig into the root causes of prevalent abortion, which is due to the lack of impulse control of the sexual lusts for sexual pleasure.

Thus if humanity is able to modulate the impulse control of the sexual lusts for sexual pleasure effectively [if there is a will, there is way] then there will be less abortions due to uncontrollable sexual lusts.

As with human nature, there will be valid medical and others reasons for abortion.
In this case any variance with valid reasons should be acceptable but the variances will prompt humanity to analyze the root causes to ensure preventions in the future.

Abortion is a moral and ethical issue which at least will drive humanity to take corrective actions to mitigate uncontrollable primal and barbaric sexual impulses.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

[Redacted]
Where does 'ethics' come into the equation? Abortion has nothing to do with either 'morality' or 'ethics'. Abortion is a medical and biological 'issue'. A foetus is ENTIRELY the responsibility of the person carrying it--biological FACT. That's not an equal partnership. The offspring is also ENTIRELY the responsibility of the mother, unless the father CHOOSES otherwise. So the male is the only one who gets to choose?
[Redacted]

[Edited by iMod]

If not letting half the human race make all the decisions for the future of our species/world makes me a mysogenist, then i guess only mysogenists are rational people. If that's the definitions you're playing with, it means you're essentially evil by definition.

It's extremely sexist and anti-diversity to eliminate half of humanity's lived experience from consideration in the future of all. You're basically being fascist right now.

[Redacted] Sort out your 'quote' function. [Redacted]Just go to 'board preferences' 'edit posting defaults' and 'enable BBCode' .


[Edited by iMod]

How mature.

[Walker]

Joe Biden calls himself a pro-abortion, devout Catholic.

In other words, he's a doublethinker.

Abortion is made ethical by doublethink, if one is also a devout Catholic.

It just means he is smarter than his faith group
For anyone wanting to join the 21stC, pay heed that, even hyper Catholic Ireland has legalised abortion.
Get real.

This looks pretty real.

Archbishop Cordileone’s Response to Speaker Pelosi’s Comments About Pro-Life Voters
Most Rev. Salvatore J. Cordileone
January 21, 2021
On Monday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi criticized prolife voters who voted for Donald Trump on the abortion issue, saying their votes cause her “great grief as a Catholic” and accusing them of “being willing to sell the whole democracy down the river for that one issue.”


Most Reverend Salvatore J. Cordileone, Archbishop of San Francisco, issued the following statement in response:

Begin Quote:

“To begin with the obvious: Nancy Pelosi does not speak for the Catholic Church. She speaks as a high-level important government leader, and as a private citizen. And on the question of the equal dignity of human life in the womb, she also speaks in direct contradiction to a fundamental human right that Catholic teaching has consistently championed for 2,000 years.


“Christians have always understood that the commandment, ‘Thou shall not kill,’ applies to all life, including life in the womb. Around the end of the first century the Letter of Barnabas states: “You shall not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shall you destroy it after it is born’ (#19). One thousand, eight hundred and sixty-five years later, the Second Vatican Council affirmed: ‘Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes’ (Gaudium et spes, n. 51).


“Pope Francis continues this unbroken teaching. Addressing participants in the conference, ‘Yes to Life! - Taking Care of the Precious Gift of Life in Its Frailty’ on May 25, 2019, he condemned abortion in the strongest possible terms: ‘is it licit to eliminate a human life to solve a problem? ... It is not licit. Never, never eliminate a human life … to solve a problem. Abortion is never the answer that women and families are looking for.’ And just yesterday (January 20, 2021) Archbishop Gomez, President of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, reiterated the declaration of the U.S. bishops that abortion is for Catholics the ‘preeminent priority.’ In doing so, he acted rightly and collaboratively in his role as USCCB President, and I am grateful to him for doing so.


“Preeminent does not mean ‘only,’ of course. There are certainly many evils we must confront and many goods we must pursue. In his inaugural speech yesterday, President Biden gave a moving call to unity and healing. He offered what I would call a ‘Litany of Compassion’ – bringing before the eyes of the nation the suffering of people across a wide spectrum of issues. In my experience, advocates for unborn children also work diligently to be of service in many of these causes as well. Speaker Pelosi has chosen this week to impugn the motives of millions of Catholics and others for choosing to make voting on the issue of abortion their priority and accuses them of ‘selling out democracy.’ This is not the language of unity and healing. She owes these voters an apology.


“I myself will not presume to know what was in the minds of Catholic voters when they voted for the Presidential candidate of their choice, no matter who their preferred candidate was. There are many issues of very grave moral consequence that Catholics must weigh in good conscience when they vote. But one thing is clear: No Catholic in good conscience can favor abortion.* ‘Right to choose’ is a smokescreen for perpetuating an entire industry that profits from one of the most heinous evils imaginable. Our land is soaked with the blood of the innocent, and it must stop.


“That is why, as Catholics, we will continue to speak out on behalf of those who have no voice to speak for themselves and reach out to, comfort and support those who are suffering the scars of the abortion experience. We will do so, until our land is finally rid of this despicable evil.”

https://sfarchdiocese.org/letters-and-statements

end quote


* Commentary: Come on, Man! There's always an angle to cheat the system, Progressive style, just like getting elected.

[Advocate]

>President Biden gave a moving call to unity and healing. He offered what I would call a ‘Litany of Compassion’ – bringing before the eyes of the nation the suffering of people across a wide spectrum of issues.

Just not for people who want to protect themselves against the government.

>But one thing is clear: No Catholic in good conscience can favor abortion.

False! I consider myself a cultural Catholic and have no belief in Catholic dogma. I am against abortion for reasons not faith. My conscience is clear either way because it's not a Catholic one.

[Walker]

Are progressives born to lie, cheat and steal?
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-25045460

"Progressives view social conventions and restraints as the crucial impediment to human fulfilment," he writes. "The readiness of Labour MPs to fabricate their expenses is symbolic of a wider philosophical disposition: a structural tolerance of lying and cheating as a justification for political action."

"Conservatives believe that it is only... social contrivances that save us from our own predatory and evil natures. Progressives believe that human beings are wiser than institutions."

[Walker]

>But one thing is clear: No Catholic in good conscience can favor abortion.

False! I consider myself a cultural Catholic and have no belief in Catholic dogma. I am against abortion for reasons not faith. My conscience is clear either way because it's not a Catholic one.

Apples and oranges.

I consider myself a cultural Catholic and have no belief in Catholic dogma.

How does that work?

Doublethink?

I know a Catholic who goes to mass every day and is probably a "cultural Catholic," whatever that is, because he believes in the Church Dogma, as best he can.

[Advocate]

[quote=Walker post_id=492510 time=1611585041 user_id=11599]
[quote=Advocate post_id=492507 time=1611584435 user_id=15238]

>But one thing is clear: No Catholic in good conscience can [u]favor abortion[/u].

False! I consider myself a cultural Catholic and have no belief in Catholic dogma. [u]I am against abortion [/u]for reasons not faith. My conscience is clear either way because it's not a Catholic one.
[/quote]

Apples and oranges.
[quote]I consider myself a cultural Catholic and have no belief in Catholic dogma.[/quote]
How does that work?

Doublethink?

I know a Catholic who goes to mass every day and is probably a "cultural Catholic," whatever that is, because he believes in the Church Dogma, as best he can.
[/quote]

The Latin Mass, stained glass, beautiful cathedrals, chrism, confession, incense, choirs, are all beautiful no matter what you believe and should be respected and preserved. That's cultural Catholicism. There is no contradiction necessary or implied. I think what you're talking about is hypocritical Catholicism, a different animal. those people believe that they Should believe the Catholic dogma. I believe i should Not believe Any dogma.

[Advocate]

[quote=Advocate post_id=492511 time=1611586173 user_id=15238]
[quote=Walker post_id=492510 time=1611585041 user_id=11599]
[quote=Advocate post_id=492507 time=1611584435 user_id=15238]

>But one thing is clear: No Catholic in good conscience can [u]favor abortion[/u].

False! I consider myself a cultural Catholic and have no belief in Catholic dogma. [u]I am against abortion [/u]for reasons not faith. My conscience is clear either way because it's not a Catholic one.
[/quote]

Apples and oranges.
[quote]I consider myself a cultural Catholic and have no belief in Catholic dogma.[/quote]
How does that work?

Doublethink?

I know a Catholic who goes to mass every day and is probably a "cultural Catholic," whatever that is, because he believes in the Church Dogma, as best he can.
[/quote]

The Latin Mass, stained glass, beautiful cathedrals, chrism, confession, incense, choirs, are all <potentially> beautiful no matter what you believe and should be respected and preserved. That's cultural Catholicism. There is no contradiction necessary or implied. I think what you're talking about is hypocritical Catholicism, a different animal. those people believe that they Should believe the Catholic dogma. I believe i should Not believe Any dogma.

"But Kaiser, no true Catholic...
[/quote]

[Sculptor]

Joe Biden calls himself a pro-abortion, devout Catholic.

In other words, he's a doublethinker.

Abortion is made ethical by doublethink, if one is also a devout Catholic.

It just means he is smarter than his faith group
For anyone wanting to join the 21stC, pay heed that, even hyper Catholic Ireland has legalised abortion.
Get real.

This looks pretty real.

Archbishop Cordileone’s Response to Speaker Pelosi’s Comments About Pro-Life Voters
Most Rev. Salvatore J. Cordileone
January 21, 2021
On Monday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi criticized prolife voters who voted for Donald Trump on the abortion issue, saying their votes cause her “great grief as a Catholic” and accusing them of “being willing to sell the whole democracy down the river for that one issue.”


Most Reverend Salvatore J. Cordileone, Archbishop of San Francisco, issued the following statement in response:

Begin Quote:

“To begin with the obvious: Nancy Pelosi does not speak for the Catholic Church. She speaks as a high-level important government leader, and as a private citizen. And on the question of the equal dignity of human life in the womb, she also speaks in direct contradiction to a fundamental human right that Catholic teaching has consistently championed for 2,000 years.


“Christians have always understood that the commandment, ‘Thou shall not kill,’ applies to all life, including life in the womb. Around the end of the first century the Letter of Barnabas states: “You shall not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shall you destroy it after it is born’ (#19). One thousand, eight hundred and sixty-five years later, the Second Vatican Council affirmed: ‘Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes’ (Gaudium et spes, n. 51).


“Pope Francis continues this unbroken teaching. Addressing participants in the conference, ‘Yes to Life! - Taking Care of the Precious Gift of Life in Its Frailty’ on May 25, 2019, he condemned abortion in the strongest possible terms: ‘is it licit to eliminate a human life to solve a problem? ... It is not licit. Never, never eliminate a human life … to solve a problem. Abortion is never the answer that women and families are looking for.’ And just yesterday (January 20, 2021) Archbishop Gomez, President of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, reiterated the declaration of the U.S. bishops that abortion is for Catholics the ‘preeminent priority.’ In doing so, he acted rightly and collaboratively in his role as USCCB President, and I am grateful to him for doing so.


“Preeminent does not mean ‘only,’ of course. There are certainly many evils we must confront and many goods we must pursue. In his inaugural speech yesterday, President Biden gave a moving call to unity and healing. He offered what I would call a ‘Litany of Compassion’ – bringing before the eyes of the nation the suffering of people across a wide spectrum of issues. In my experience, advocates for unborn children also work diligently to be of service in many of these causes as well. Speaker Pelosi has chosen this week to impugn the motives of millions of Catholics and others for choosing to make voting on the issue of abortion their priority and accuses them of ‘selling out democracy.’ This is not the language of unity and healing. She owes these voters an apology.


“I myself will not presume to know what was in the minds of Catholic voters when they voted for the Presidential candidate of their choice, no matter who their preferred candidate was. There are many issues of very grave moral consequence that Catholics must weigh in good conscience when they vote. But one thing is clear: No Catholic in good conscience can favor abortion.* ‘Right to choose’ is a smokescreen for perpetuating an entire industry that profits from one of the most heinous evils imaginable. Our land is soaked with the blood of the innocent, and it must stop.


“That is why, as Catholics, we will continue to speak out on behalf of those who have no voice to speak for themselves and reach out to, comfort and support those who are suffering the scars of the abortion experience. We will do so, until our land is finally rid of this despicable evil.”

https://sfarchdiocese.org/letters-and-statements

end quote


* Commentary: Come on, Man! There's always an angle to cheat the system, Progressive style, just like getting elected.

DO you have ANYthing worth saying?

[Advocate]

[quote=Sculptor post_id=492561 time=1611604852 user_id=17400]
DO you have ANYthing worth saying?
[/quote]

Let's elevate the conversation from Both ends.

[Sculptor]

Let's elevate the conversation from Both ends.

Maybe you should spend a moment to learn how to use the quote function

[Walker]

The Latin Mass, stained glass, beautiful cathedrals, chrism, confession, incense, choirs, are all beautiful no matter what you believe and should be respected and preserved. That's cultural Catholicism. There is no contradiction necessary or implied. I think what you're talking about is hypocritical Catholicism, a different animal. those people believe that they Should believe the Catholic dogma. I believe i should Not believe Any dogma.

The engine is elevated, systems are go.
Good luck with getting that caboose to play along.

*

It seems that what you’re saying is that anyone who appreciates the beauty, aesthetics and form of the cathedral and mass is a Catholic.

In that case, appreciating Muslim architecture and whatever they do in there would make one a Muslim.
Cats and Dogs contradiction to be both.

Is a Cultural Catholic actually a Religious Tourist?

Is Joe Biden a Cultural Catholic?
Who knows.
As a facilitator of state-funded abortion, foreign and domestic, he sure doesn't believe the Dogma.

He has always been a Photo-op opportunist.

The media is turning him into St. Joe, which is quite a change from his reputation of being a p***k as a senator.

[Advocate]

[quote=Sculptor post_id=492618 time=1611614669 user_id=17400]
[quote=Advocate post_id=492572 time=1611605958 user_id=15238]
Let's elevate the conversation from Both ends.
[/quote]

Maybe you should spend a moment to learn how to use the quote function
[/quote]

It sucks. That's why i turned it off. That's why there's an option to turn it off.