Peter Holmes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:23 am
1 If we co-create the reality we are in, who or what is the co-creator of that reality?
2 We are part of the reality we are in. So if we co-reate that reality, then we co-create our selves, including our perception and understanding of that reality. So who or what is the 'we' doing the co-creating? Just another co-creation?
3 If we co-create what we call facts, it doesn't follow that we co-create moral facts. For example, if we co-create what we call the fact that water is H2O, it doesn't follow that the moral wrongness of killing humans is the same kind of co-created fact.
Note my response to Seeds above.
viewtopic.php?p=483622#p483622
From the above, it is demonstrated and justified we are the co-creators of the reality we are part and parcel of.
As such whatever is fact, we are the co-creators of those facts.
There are moral facts, therefore we are the co-creators of the moral facts.
The above are mere assertions of moral facts.
What is needed to is to verify and justify the moral facts empirically and philosophically as real, and imperatively within a moral framework and system.
4 From 'humans co-create reality', it doesn't follow that 'therefore there is a moral reality'.
Whatever is of a co-created reality as asserted, it must be verified and justified empirically and philosophically as real, and imperatively within a framework and system of reality[
FSR].
I have verified and justified empirically and philosophically moral reality as real within a moral framework and system of reality[
FSR]
5 This appeal to quantum mechanics is a massive category error, and anyway does nothing to support moral objectivism.
1. First QM [reality is interdependent with humans as co-creators] debunked your idea of 'what is fact' [i.e. state-of-affair, feature of reality] which at the ultimate level is independent of human conditions.
2. As such you don't have an exclusive claim to your linguistic based what-is-fact [which is a bastardized linguistic fact not directly interactive with reality].
Thus my verifiable and justifiable moral facts do exist within a moral framework and system that deals with morality that confirms,
moral facts are co-created by humans.
3. What is objectivity is dependent on the credibility of features of the Framework and System, i.e. verifiability, testing, repeatability, falsifiability, consistency, etc. to its truth and factual claims.
I have stated the scientific FSR is the standard-bearer of the highest objectivity.
My moral framework and system is similar in quality to the scientific FSR, thus will have similar objectivity.
4. Therefore QM in 1 via 2 and 3 support moral realism and moral objectivity.
