Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:21 am**

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:46 am
gaffo wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:23 am note your sliping in of Socialism with Communism, not kewl by you (you think i would not notice?)
Explain to me what USSR stood for. Then explain to me what the acronym NAZI means. Then tell me that Socialism isn't related to any of either.

I'm not going to play ward games with you, i know my history.

USSR/NAZIs party started out left, the former become a "communist" dictatorship, the later a fascist one.

to my mind any and all dictatorships = rightwing.

I find the Norweign/Dane/Finn/Swedish/Norweign societies - Socialist ones

They're not. They have some social welfare distribution, but they all run on capitalist economies to generate the funds. Did I note send you all the sites on this, like the Danish PM himself declaring, "Denmark is not Socialist"? I can find them again, if you need them.[/quote]

fine! if those nations are not Socialist, great!

i only wish my nation were more like them!

you have a problem with that? of so why so?

what of the your claimed nonexistant Reichwing miltia

Where are they? I can't find them. If I do, I'll stop them.[/quote]

6 were arrested today - 6000 more will be in my streets theatening my Republic via a Trump lose in the general.

when they show up on the streets killing folks will be as silent about them "not existing" as you are today Sir?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:11 pm And it seems that no degree of failure or disaster that it has occasioned is sufficient to deprive people of their blind optimism about it.

?????????? don't uderstand.[/quote]
It means that it's impossible to point to any place on the globe that has ever been made happier, better off and healthier by actual Socialism.[/quote]

ok, so the Scandiavians are happy, i say lets be like them.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:11 pm Yes, any reasonable credibility Communism ever had ought to be gone. But alas, it is not dead yet. Some people keep raising its corpse.
really - REALLY? who? not since 1991 IMO.

The media, the universities, the radicals of the Dems...

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:11 pm except that the Dems have gone so far Left that in a two-party system, they've made him the only alternative to them.

THAT IS NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

it is TRUE Gerngrich move the Repubicans to the Right! - I like Bush Sr - fought Gulf War (which a supported - unlike his son who started the illegal Iraqnma war and created Isis).

and as i said today if Reagan were running in his party, the Dear Leader Fascists would call Reagan a Communist!!!!!!!!!!

I know this and you should too.

Republicans moved to the Reich, not the Dems to the left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:11 pm I would say it is. The Kamala-Omar-Bernie-AOC wing is waaaay out there.

ok, lets break this down to the names you mention. to have a clear perspective.

Kamala is pure Center - Moderate. if you know of her history in CA as a prosecutor you'd know she is not liberal, the liberals in the dem party think she is rightwing dem, me being generous will call her in the middle of her party. like Biden and Obama (Obama was marginally left of center - in fact he and i i think are the same - slightly left of moderate).

Omar, Omar i like a whole lot in fact, i see her as willing to take on AIPAC, and have a target painted on her back for it - she opposes Israel due to the latters Apratied policy via their illegal occupation of the WB and the subhuman treatment of the non-jews living there. amen! for her balls for standing up to Apartied and AIPAC. I do not see her as more liberal than me overall. so Omar is like me and Obama - a moderate, slightly left of center democrat.

Bernie - full bore leftie, more left than me. I really like him though as a person, and so would have loved to have voted for him as a man with heart for the poor. i think he is a Socialist (or the scandinavian form of which is not socialism you say) - which? not sure, but like the guy as a person though more left them me (i like Ron Paul - who is right of me - as one Libertarian to another - and voted for him in 88 - he got 2-percent).

AOC - full bore leftie - same spectrum as Bernie, though i do not like her personally, unlike Bernie whom i like as a person.

------so 2 of the four you state are "way out there" are in fact way out there. the other 2 are moderates.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:11 pm So I think a lot of his real support is actually less pro-Trump than it is strongly anti-Left.
who knows why these American traitors love fasicsm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:11 pm They don't. Fascism is Left Wing. Always has been. Mussolini was a Communist first, then went to Socialism. Hitler was a "National Socialist." That's what NAZI means. And the blackshirts (like Hitler's brownshirts) are in the streets breaking windows and harassing dissenters, just like in the Weimar Republic. They call themselves Antifa, but they're as "Fa" as Hitler's crew.

I'm not going to play the name game, Pinochet, Argintine dictators of the 70's, the Shaw in Iran, General Sisi in Egypt today/Guatamalan generals, El Savadorian Gernals/nicaraquwan ones - pre and post 79 Samosa/Ortega- same for Cuba in 62 Batista/Castro.

all of them were murderous thugs, you saying all of them were Communists?

lol, get a clue bubba.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:39 am**

gaffo wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:21 am to my mind any and all dictatorships = rightwing.

Funny. Most of the world's dictatorships right now are Left wing.

I find the Norweign/Dane/Finn/Swedish/Norweign societies - Socialist ones
They're not. They have some social welfare distribution, but they all run on capitalist economies to generate the funds. Did I note send you all the sites on this, like the Danish PM himself declaring, "Denmark is not Socialist"? I can find them again, if you need them.
fine! if those nations are not Socialist, great!

i only wish my nation were more like them!

you have a problem with that? of so why so?

I don't have a problem with social welfare. I have a problem with big government, suppression of free speech, and suicidal economic models....all of which go along with Socialism.

what of the your claimed nonexistant Reichwing miltia
Where are they? I can't find them. If I do, I'll stop them.
6 were arrested today

Apparently not. They were a fringe group with no political party alliances.

?????????? don't uderstand.
It means that it's impossible to point to any place on the globe that has ever been made happier, better off and healthier by actual Socialism.
ok, so the Scandiavians are happy, i say lets be like them.

So you want America to be basically racially homogeneous, like Sweden has been? Or do you mean you want them to have huge oil reserves to fund their state, like Norway? Or do you want them to be aggressively capitalist in regard to business, like Denmark, but have a social safety net of some kind?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:11 pm They don't. Fascism is Left Wing. Always has been. Mussolini was a Communist first, then went to Socialism. Hitler was a "National Socialist." That's what NAZI means. And the blackshirts (like Hitler's brownshirts) are in the streets breaking windows and harassing dissenters, just like in the Weimar Republic. They call themselves Antifa, but they're as "Fa" as Hitler's crew.
I'm not going to play the name game,

You should. Those names are Socialists. Just ask them.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:53 am**

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:39 am
gaffo wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:21 am to my mind any and all dictatorships = rightwing.
Funny. Most of the world's dictatorships right now are Left wing.

ok, lets give some thought about where there are Dictarorships.

Egypyt. is that Communist?

Saudi Arabia. is that Communist?

Iran, is that Communist?

Brazil is moving toward, after freeing itself - like 1/2 of the 20 or Eastern European nations that were Communist, then free, now falling into a rightwing dictatorship.

Myanmar - its a Dictatorship, has been for 50 yrs now, is it communist?

1/3 of African Nations - equitorial guinea's been ruled by a dictator since 1968, and the uncle since a decade ago - is it communst.

Angola communist? it was in the 70's, still rulled by a dictator, is it still communist? or just a dictatorship?

Lybia was "communist" under Quafe, now its 2-3 regional nation-states under military dictatorships (are all three generals also communists?)

Philipenes - Duarte is a dick for sure, and a dictator, is he a communist? last time i checked he is not and in fact goes out of his way to kill them (and many others for pleasure/power).

China? at this point its clear she is not a Communist nation, just a thugocrisy. where the "communist party" - which chases money capital more than communist ideals.

..so that leave one Commuist naton North Korea.

thanks for playing though.

------------- i forgot about Thailand a Republic fastly moving toward a military dictatorship, is it Communist too?

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:35 am**

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:39 am
So you want America to be basically racially homogeneous, like Sweden has been?

I am a 70''s Democrat, so that means i ignore Race, and affirm a raceless society, i.e. Melting Pot/Assimilation.

Dems moved away from that view, and why i have been an Registered Independent since 1990. Dems started moving away from Melting pot by then and toward PC/Indentity politics, and so i nad to leave that party.

Republicans were never an options since they are for a Theocracy - an American Iran, and love to hate Athiests, and i was an Athiest since the late 70's so never welcomed in the Repugniklan party.

not that it is your business, but my GF is a kind and beautiful black american women.

per Sweden, if her society is 99-percent white due to demographics im ok with that. if by policy i am not ok with it.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:39 am Or do you mean you want them to have huge oil reserves to fund their state, like Norway?

ok, by me, i love oil, it works, unlike green energy/electic cars which never will (until batteries no longer suck - and they still do 50 yrs later).

i do have a problem with all the landbarges i see communting to work - burning 2 times as much oil as i do in my yaris.

true Partiots take the bus/train/motorcycle/scooter/small car to work, not land barges.

that alone would cut oil buring by 1/2!

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:39 am Or do you want them to be aggressively capitalist in regard to business, like Denmark, but have a social safety net of some kind?

"Aggressive" to me means Maria Antwonete dickish "let them eat cake" Capitalists. no if Danes are Capitalist dicks, then i do not wish America to be like her.

Humble Capitalists i would affirm for my society however.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:52 pm**

gaffo wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:53 am ..so that leave one Commuist naton North Korea.

In other words, it doesn't count, you think, if a country calls themselves Socialist or Communist. It doesn't matter if their economy runs that way. It doesn't even matter if they revere Marx and hate the West. You don't count them. So all you can find is North Korea...bad enough, for sure, but not the whole package. And then you think it's plausible to claim that although Communism has existed nowhere but there, allegedly, there's still somewhere out there in Platonic land, an "ideal" Communism that's going to work, even though it never, every has, and has decayed into dictatorship in every real case?

Just checking.

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:28 am**

gaffo wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:35 am Republicans were never an options since they are for a Theocracy...

I haven't heard this. What are your sources? How do you get the idea they want a "theocracy"?

Humble Capitalists i would affirm for my society however.

Well, we're not far apart then. Some humble, charitable and economically-rational plan would be my preference too. I find Socialism to have none of these qualities, however.

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:55 am**

The Antichrist does rule the world. This helps Christians see what they are up against, and are permanently opposed to.

The Antichrist is either a liar, a terrorist, or a faceless corporation. or all three.

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:15 pm**

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:55 am The Antichrist is either a liar, a terrorist, or a faceless corporation. or all three.

Don't be surprised if he's a man...and one with a Socialist plan for you.

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:48 pm**

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:15 pm
Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:55 am The Antichrist is either a liar, a terrorist, or a faceless corporation. or all three.
Don't be surprised if he's a man...and one with a Socialist plan for you.

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:51 pm**

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:48 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:15 pm
Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:55 am The Antichrist is either a liar, a terrorist, or a faceless corporation. or all three.
Don't be surprised if he's a man...and one with a Socialist plan for you.

You have this queer visceral reaction to the word 'socialist'.Is a sort of latter day McCarthyism?

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:57 pm**

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:52 pm
gaffo wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:53 am ..so that leave one Commuist naton North Korea.
In other words, it doesn't count, you think, if a country calls themselves Socialist or Communist. It doesn't matter if their economy runs that way. It doesn't even matter if they revere Marx and hate the West. You don't count them. So all you can find is North Korea...bad enough, for sure, but not the whole package. And then you think it's plausible to claim that although Communism has existed nowhere but there, allegedly, there's still somewhere out there in Platonic land, an "ideal" Communism that's going to work, even though it never, every has, and has decayed into dictatorship in every real case?

Just checking.

??? i have no idea where you came up with my views - but your above is not them.

transerence from you is all i can deduce.

if/when you can come to me to discuss - without your bias about my views - i.e. your view of my view is not my view. we can discuss.

peace - i still like you - lol.

Posted: **Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:42 am**

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:51 pm You have this queer visceral reaction to the word 'socialist'.

It's neither visceral, since it's informed by facts and history, nor queer, since all normal people should react against tyrannical, homicidal regimes.

Nothing odd about that.

Something is quite odd, though, about people who think they can make Socialism work, since it never works, and always ends up creating corpses. Something's really wrong there.

Posted: **Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:45 am**

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:57 pm peace - i still like you - lol.

Yeah, we're good. We don't have to agree for me to like you.

Posted: **Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:47 pm**

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:45 am
gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:57 pm peace - i still like you - lol.
Yeah, we're good. We don't have to agree for me to like you.

well thats a start/foundation.

so lets "talk" - without either of us placing words in the others mouths.

ok?

you place your words in your mouth, and i shall likewise.

then we can agree or dissagree, and then discuss why we agree or dissagree.

Gentlleman's Agreement.

I agree, and hope you do too Sir.

Posted: **Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:22 pm**

gaffo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:47 pm I agree, and hope you do too Sir.

Yes, of course. I don't think I've ever done that, but okay.

To perhaps at first sincerely misunderstand what another person says, and to ask them to straighten out your initial impression of what they meant certainly doesn't seem to me to involved "putting any words in anybody's mouth." Clarification is an essential part of any discussion of complex ideas, I think. So I trust this doesn't mean we can't question each other on what each other means. That would be counterproductive.

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