Philosophy Now Forum

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:02 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:38 pm Morality (mine anyway) makes for civilization and fair transaction among men, and, it concretely draws the line between men.

As I say: the solitary has no need for morality and the ideal world has no need for moral codification; most of us aren't alone and the world is far from ideal.

Not sure I understand. I don't want to assume so please correct me if I get it wrong. You regard morality as some kind of social thing. Is that right?

So the purpose of morality would only pertain to how individuals acted in relation to others. Is that right?

Would you go so far as to say the purpose of morality was to assure that a society was a good one?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:11 am I have no intention of arguing with your Henry.

yeah you do...

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:11 am I really want to understand what you mean.

which ought to be easy: I'm the most simple-minded guy in the place

I'm direct, plain-spoken, I don't pussy-foot, my notions aren't subtle

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:37 pm I've been following all the debates about morality in recent months and have come to the conclusion that what is called morality is a totally useless concept of no value whatsoever to anyone's life.

With rare exception moral codes are all nothing but prohibitions and lists of what one must not do: don't murder, don't rape, don't assault others, don't be violent, don't steal, don't lie, don't have an abortion, don't enslave others, don't vandalize, don't abuse nature, don't abuse animals, don't hate, don't do drugs, don't drink and drive, don't break the law, don't spit, don't pick your nose, don't go out without your mask on--don't, don't don't!

For any human being who wants to know how to live their life successfully in this world, such codes are absolutely useless. What one wants to know is not what not to do, but what to do.

Life is not evading evil, life is doing good. Life is doing and achieving and becoming something. Your moral codes only address what not to do and what not to be, without a hint of what one must to do actually achieve or accomplish anything of any real importance or value. Your so-called moral codes are useless.

If the entire world should adopt any of your moral codes and live by them, the entire race would be dead in a week. No one would do anything, "morally wrong"--but they would also do nothing of any value, like productive work. Why would they since nothing of value is morally required?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:48 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:37 pm I've been following all the debates about morality in recent months and have come to the conclusion that what is called morality is a totally useless concept of no value whatsoever to anyone's life.

With rare exception moral codes are all nothing but prohibitions and lists of what one must not do: don't murder, don't rape, don't assault others, don't be violent, don't steal, don't lie, don't have an abortion, don't enslave others, don't vandalize, don't abuse nature, don't abuse animals, don't hate, don't do drugs, don't drink and drive, don't break the law, don't spit, don't pick your nose, don't go out without your mask on--don't, don't don't!

For any human being who wants to know how to live their life successfully in this world, such codes are absolutely useless. What one wants to know is not what not to do, but what to do.

Life is not evading evil, life is doing good. Life is doing and achieving and becoming something. Your moral codes only address what not to do and what not to be, without a hint of what one must to do actually achieve or accomplish anything of any real importance or value. Your so-called moral codes are useless.

If the entire world should adopt any of your moral codes and live by them, the entire race would be dead in a week. No one would do anything, "morally wrong"--but they would also do nothing of any value, like productive work. Why would they since nothing of value is morally required?

How would "don't murder" (for example) prevent one from doing something of value such as producing an automobile engine (for example)? Are you suggesting something like the protestant work ethic where if one isn't doing something "productive" one is being immoral?

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:34 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:48 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:37 pm I've been following all the debates about morality in recent months and have come to the conclusion that what is called morality is a totally useless concept of no value whatsoever to anyone's life.

With rare exception moral codes are all nothing but prohibitions and lists of what one must not do: don't murder, don't rape, don't assault others, don't be violent, don't steal, don't lie, don't have an abortion, don't enslave others, don't vandalize, don't abuse nature, don't abuse animals, don't hate, don't do drugs, don't drink and drive, don't break the law, don't spit, don't pick your nose, don't go out without your mask on--don't, don't don't!

For any human being who wants to know how to live their life successfully in this world, such codes are absolutely useless. What one wants to know is not what not to do, but what to do.

Life is not evading evil, life is doing good. Life is doing and achieving and becoming something. Your moral codes only address what not to do and what not to be, without a hint of what one must to do actually achieve or accomplish anything of any real importance or value. Your so-called moral codes are useless.

If the entire world should adopt any of your moral codes and live by them, the entire race would be dead in a week. No one would do anything, "morally wrong"--but they would also do nothing of any value, like productive work. Why would they since nothing of value is morally required?

How would "don't murder" (for example) prevent one from doing something of value such as producing an automobile engine (for example)? Are you suggesting something like the protestant work ethic where if one isn't doing something "productive" one is being immoral?

Have you been following this thread? All moral codes are at best are useless, and most are actually wrong and dangerous. I am taking an extreme example of someone attempting to live by principles that require nothing but NOT doing things.

I don't care what anyone calls the principles they live by, "ethics," "morals," the, "way," or anything else. Living is doing. Of course there are going to be things that are bad for me to do. What I want to know, and have to know, in order live is what kind of things I must do to live. A list of things not to do does not tell me how to live anymore than a list of things not to put in my bread can tell me how to make bread or a list of routes not take can tell me how to reach a destination.

If your whole life consists of evading all the things your moral code forbids, you will die. Unless you do something to provide yourself with the things your life requires it won't matter what you don't do. If you are busy doing all the kinds of things you must do to live, you will have neither the time or inclination to do those things that would be bad for you, but no moral code of don'ts can tell you that.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:24 pm OK. Whatever. I'm tired of arguing with you. Say whatever you want.