Philosophy Now Forum

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 5:02 pm You believe the brain is a creator and I believe it is receiver. The essence of religion is to become an impartial reciever rather than an egoistic creator

You mean the purpose of religion is slavery

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 4:51 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 11:04 am Religion never had a conscience being an inconvenience to its true agenda. Instead it was subsumed by its own version of a will to power. Religion never ceased to be the greatest mental toxin humans could inflict on themselves specializing more in venality than spirituality. Religion as presented in history was more in tune with political, power and wealth objectives and more secular than secularism itself. The Great Beast has indeed flourished too long and does so even now under the name of religion.

You are referring to personal God concepts. Einstein is suggesting the evolution of secularized religion based on obedience to a personal god into becoming capable of experiencing universal values through conscience. Is humanity as a whole capable of opening to the inner truths of conscience to all the manipulations natural for indoctrination. I don't know.

How could I have when I wrote Religion as presented in history. Religion does not in the least refer to personal god concepts. You could be defined as a heretic if you proceed on that basis. It's your view and the view of others including Einstein - who didn't believe in god - and those you mention so often who personalize god according to their own views. As usual you have things backwards. I think by now you're getting too old to keep repeating yourself.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 9:28 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 4:51 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 11:04 am Religion never had a conscience being an inconvenience to its true agenda. Instead it was subsumed by its own version of a will to power. Religion never ceased to be the greatest mental toxin humans could inflict on themselves specializing more in venality than spirituality. Religion as presented in history was more in tune with political, power and wealth objectives and more secular than secularism itself. The Great Beast has indeed flourished too long and does so even now under the name of religion.

You are referring to personal God concepts. Einstein is suggesting the evolution of secularized religion based on obedience to a personal god into becoming capable of experiencing universal values through conscience. Is humanity as a whole capable of opening to the inner truths of conscience to all the manipulations natural for indoctrination. I don't know.

Einstein rejected the notion of a personal god. What are you trying to say here?

Einstein is referring to the transition from the idolatry of a personal god into becoming capable of experiencing the feeling of objective conscience

Why did Plato call the source beyond time and space the "good"? Creation is a necessity and certain feelings like the universal love of life sustain it. They are felt in awakened conscience but the human attribute for conscience has become atrophied mostly from lack of use. As a result Man has created morality to replace it with mixed results

Can Man evolve from dependence on idolatry and often used for manipulation to control the Great Beast? Can human conscience evolve into feeling the "good" and the source of universal purpose? The Beast and its ability to deny with the help of imagination has become too strong IMO to allow the truth of conscience.

Dubious wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 10:24 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 4:51 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 11:04 am Religion never had a conscience being an inconvenience to its true agenda. Instead it was subsumed by its own version of a will to power. Religion never ceased to be the greatest mental toxin humans could inflict on themselves specializing more in venality than spirituality. Religion as presented in history was more in tune with political, power and wealth objectives and more secular than secularism itself. The Great Beast has indeed flourished too long and does so even now under the name of religion.

You are referring to personal God concepts. Einstein is suggesting the evolution of secularized religion based on obedience to a personal god into becoming capable of experiencing universal values through conscience. Is humanity as a whole capable of opening to the inner truths of conscience to all the manipulations natural for indoctrination. I don't know.

How could I have when I wrote Religion as presented in history. Religion does not in the least refer to personal god concepts. You could be defined as a heretic if you proceed on that basis. It's your view and the view of others including Einstein - who didn't believe in god - and those you mention so often who personalize god according to their own views. As usual you have things backwards. I think by now you're getting too old to keep repeating yourself.

Why you young whipersnpper. Einstein explained how religion evolved from fear into morality. Now he suggests the next step in evolution; the evolution into awakened conscience.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 9:29 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 5:02 pm You believe the brain is a creator and I believe it is receiver. The essence of religion is to become an impartial reciever rather than an egoistic creator

You mean the purpose of religion is slavery

No. Free will gives Man the ability to consciously respond to the needs of our source. Living in imagination in an unawakened state, Man can only respond to desires which we call free will. Animal man lives as a slave to desires while conscious Man can have free will and serve a universal purpose

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:42 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 10:24 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 4:51 pm

You are referring to personal God concepts. Einstein is suggesting the evolution of secularized religion based on obedience to a personal god into becoming capable of experiencing universal values through conscience. Is humanity as a whole capable of opening to the inner truths of conscience to all the manipulations natural for indoctrination. I don't know.

How could I have when I wrote Religion as presented in history. Religion does not in the least refer to personal god concepts. You could be defined as a heretic if you proceed on that basis. It's your view and the view of others including Einstein - who didn't believe in god - and those you mention so often who personalize god according to their own views. As usual you have things backwards. I think by now you're getting too old to keep repeating yourself.

Why you young whipersnpper. Einstein explained how religion evolved from fear into morality. Now he suggests the next step in evolution; the evolution into awakened conscience.

...known, understood, surmised long before Einstein ever came on the scene. Aside from science as a thinker he was nothing special and nobody would have paid any attention to anything he said if it weren't for the science. He was nowhere near to being such a fine fellow as you and others imagine him to be.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 5:02 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 4:35 am Conscience - that is a mental faculty that need to be developed over time in an individual or at present, where a very minority who inherited it from good genes.
Conscience is related to a mental faculty where one is one's own persecutor, defense, jury, judge and correctional officer which is happening within one brain.
Where one's conscience is highly effective, one actions will be spontaneously moral without second thought and decision making.

Note I write of objective moral facts justified from empirical evidence and philosophical reasoning which is fundamentally subjective, i.e. with intersubjective elements.

Your sense of objectivity is absolute-objectivity which is not realistic and not tenable.

Another essential difference

"My brain is only a receiver, in the Universe there is a core from which we obtain knowledge, strength and inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but I know that it exists." —Nikola Tesla

You believe the brain is a creator and I believe it is receiver. The essence of religion is to become an impartial reciever rather than an egoistic creator

The brain as a receiver of data from 'outside' is very common knowledge.

However from a more philosophical reflective perspective, the brain and the human self is a co-creator of the reality it is intricately a part and parcel of.

Would you deny
-humans with their brain are the creators of things invented by humans?
-humans are in a way a contributor [thus co-create] to the state of the climate, state of the ocean and air pollution we live in today?
-the finer point is humans are the intrinsic co-creator [note emergence] of the the reality it is intricately a part and parcel of.

Btw, by co-creator I do not meant humans create the universe physically but rather on an emergence basis.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:36 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 9:28 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 4:51 pm

You are referring to personal God concepts. Einstein is suggesting the evolution of secularized religion based on obedience to a personal god into becoming capable of experiencing universal values through conscience. Is humanity as a whole capable of opening to the inner truths of conscience to all the manipulations natural for indoctrination. I don't know.

Einstein rejected the notion of a personal god. What are you trying to say here?

Einstein is referring to the transition from the idolatry of a personal god into becoming capable of experiencing the feeling of objective conscience

Where does he say that?

Why did Plato call the source beyond time and space the "good"?

Because he was wrong, and/or because "good" had other connotations in ancient Greek.

Creation is a necessity and certain feelings like the universal love of life sustain it.

Creation is not a necessity. Bad premise, non sequitur based on noting.

They are felt in awakened conscience but the human attribute for conscience has become atrophied mostly from lack of use. As a result Man has created morality to replace it with mixed results

BooHoo. The old story, things were much better somewhen.

Can Man evolve from dependence on idolatry and often used for manipulation to control the Great Beast? Can human conscience evolve into feeling the "good" and the source of universal purpose? The Beast and its ability to deny with the help of imagination has become too strong IMO to allow the truth of conscience.

You are full of bollocks, because there is no great beast. Grow up! The only monster under the bed is you.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:56 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 9:29 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 5:02 pm You believe the brain is a creator and I believe it is receiver. The essence of religion is to become an impartial reciever rather than an egoistic creator

You mean the purpose of religion is slavery

No. Free will gives Man the ability to consciously respond to the needs of our source. Living in imagination in an unawakened state, Man can only respond to desires which we call free will. Animal man lives as a slave to desires while conscious Man can have free will and serve a universal purpose

So you are saying we should freely consign ourselves to slavery!!

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:56 am Animal man lives as a slave to desires while conscious Man can have free will and serve a universal purpose.

Since you constantly keep proclaiming all this it is fair to ask what universal purpose are you serving by your existence or is it just talk and nothing else...as if I wouldn't know!

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:06 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:56 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 9:29 pm

You mean the purpose of religion is slavery

No. Free will gives Man the ability to consciously respond to the needs of our source. Living in imagination in an unawakened state, Man can only respond to desires which we call free will. Animal man lives as a slave to desires while conscious Man can have free will and serve a universal purpose

So you are saying we should freely consign ourselves to slavery!!

Yes. Plato explained that we exist as a tripartite soul lacking individual unity. This is the human condition. The higher and lower parts of the soul are not in agreement. St. Paul explains our situation.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

A person must choose which slavery is more profitable and make efforts to actualize it

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:19 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:06 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:56 am

No. Free will gives Man the ability to consciously respond to the needs of our source. Living in imagination in an unawakened state, Man can only respond to desires which we call free will. Animal man lives as a slave to desires while conscious Man can have free will and serve a universal purpose

So you are saying we should freely consign ourselves to slavery!!

Yes. Plato explained that we exist as a tripartite soul lacking individual unity. This is the human condition. The higher and lower parts of the soul are not in agreement. St. Paul explains our situation.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

A person must choose which slavery is more profitable and make efforts to actualize it

NICK A WANTS TO BE A SLAVE.
LOL

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:04 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:56 am Animal man lives as a slave to desires while conscious Man can have free will and serve a universal purpose.

Since you constantly keep proclaiming all this it is fair to ask what universal purpose are you serving by your existence or is it just talk and nothing else...as if I wouldn't know!

I'm learning how to see. It is very difficult to do. Once I can see as a human being then just being normal serves a universal purpose. Simone Weil describes it in a poem

There Comes

If you do not fight it---if you look, just
look, steadily,
upon it,

there comes
a moment when you cannot do it,
if it is evil;

if good, a moment
when you cannot
not.

V A

The brain as a receiver of data from 'outside' is very common knowledge.

The brain and it senses receives impressions from the external world. The mind receives impressions from a higher reality then what the senses can interpret. The mind and the brain; do you know the difference?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:34 pm V A

The brain as a receiver of data from 'outside' is very common knowledge.

The brain and it senses receives impressions from the external world. The mind receives impressions from a higher reality then what the senses can interpret. The mind and the brain; do you know the difference?

Mind is what the brain does after regular maintenance. Brains don't change much but minds do though not for all. That's when love at first sight gets caught in a paradigm which it can't seem to escape from always circling the same vortex.