Philosophy Now Forum

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:17 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:34 pm To my way of thinking, be you following a theology and named god, a philosophy of a named philosopher, a religion that puts man above god and focuses on knowledge and wisdom like mine, a political tribe like Democrats and Republican, statism or any other thinking system, --- all groups named are following an ideology, --- and can thus be seem and described as a religion.

It is thus proper English to call atheism a religion.

Only to your way of thinking (as you just acknowledged). It's nonsense to claim that people who are not religious are somehow in a religion of their own. Does such an idea serve you because you want to claim this:

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:34 pm Take your deserved bow my atheist friends. You are now second only to my own Gnostic Christianity.

So that you can claim your beliefs are the best of all? Why are humans so willing to mindlessly allow their egos to completely distort truth to manipulate reality that they then push on others?

Because of the way the human brain works.

Because the human brain is capable of gathering and storing absolutely ANY knowledge at all, no matter how right or wrong it is.

The human brain is continually gathering information from the world around it, and it also listens more intently and follows the ones that it puts its trust into the most. The human brain of a child listens to and believes what its "God-like" figure tells it and shows it. To most young human brains to them the most "God-like" figures are parents, close family members, teachers, et cetera. So, if these "figures" are telling and showing young human brains things, and expressing those things as being absolutely true, right, and/or correct, then that brain will just automatically believe them to be. Why would they not believe some thing that they trust wholeheartedly?

Now, if these young human brains are being taught that they have to believe some thing, then they will also start believing that as well.

The belief-system works by feeding on what has been fed into the brain. So, if what was fed into the brain was just a distortion of what thee actual Truth IS, then the belief-system cannot distinguish that from what thee actual Truth really IS, so beliefs combined with the brain will just look for and see only 'that' what fits in with and suits its currently held views and beliefs. This happens through confirmation biases.

Now these beliefs are even more supported, and these now more distorted beliefs, in turn, fools and deceives one to believe that it knows what is actually the truth of things. This is when the 'ego' really starts playing its part. When one actually BELIEVES that it KNOWS what the truth is, then that one 'tries' to push those distorted beliefs and its own distorted reality, onto others as though it is the one and only true, right, and correct knowledge there is.

Deep-down there is, however, an actual underlying 'doubt', (or KNOWING) that what they believe is may not be actually true. But the 'ego' has learned to NEVER even look at nor even consider that, because this is what it, the brain, has learned from watching and observing the way "others" mis/behave.

The more people that one can can gain support from for their own distorted "religion" and "beliefs", then that 'ego' starts feeding itself even more. That ego is 'trying to' gain more "believes" to their religion and way of thinking, in order to gain support and self-"justification". The more this happens, then the more they become completely CLOSED, BLIND, and STUCK in their own distorted beliefs. This happens until one is completely unwillingly (or mindlessly) allowing that 'ego' to completely distort truth even beyond what seems believable. These people do NOT even know that they are manipulating reality at all. They are not even aware of just how much they are pushing on "others" there own completely distorted version of reality.

I would say that 'you', "lacewing, are also very prone to doing this exact same thing yourself. But, I will not now because I KNOW of what that may cause.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:17 pm I would say that you and theists should leave atheist definitions up to the vast range of individual atheists they apply to, and stop trying to classify atheists as a group of followers of a belief. The absence of religious beliefs is not a religion.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:56 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:54 pm I see mostly the same ideas, be they political or religious, with the fight being over the detail of the policies.

We are all the same basic model, like it or not.

Regards
DL

Pretty much. We are disguising our agendas (policies) in narratives.

Same thought-patterns - different languages.

+ 1

As a Gnostic Christian that tries to understand all the different languages, I like to keep my analogical interpretations as wide open as I can.

That is why I class all thinking systems into the ideology term.

Regards
DL

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:35 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:17 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:34 pm Take your deserved bow my atheist friends. You are now second only to my own Gnostic Christianity.

So that you can claim your beliefs are the best of all? Why are humans so willing to mindlessly allow their egos to completely distort truth to manipulate reality that they then push on others?

Because of the way the human brain works. Because blah blah blah blah blah....

Yes, I know all of that basic explanation, Age. I was prompting GIA to question themselves.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:35 pm I would say that 'you', "lacewing, are also very prone to doing this exact same thing yourself. But, I will not now because I KNOW of what that may cause.

Then why did you even say it? You are showing what you and your brain do.

Also, you've shown how much you misinterpret, and then you use that as an imagined reality to base your views on. It's not valid.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:23 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:43 pm Since following an ideology is a prerequisite of religion, atheism can be considered a religion

How is the ABSENCE of a particular ideology, an ideology for those who don't have it? Seriously.

Is there anything you lack a belief in? Is that an ideology for you?

Atheism (for the vast majority) is not something people do to maintain, it's simply that ideas of gods don't exist for them. Can you see that?

But 'ideas' of God obviously do exist. Surely you can see that?

If, God, Itself, exists or not, then that is a whole other issue.

Also, if one does believe that God does not exist, then could that be seen as a form of 'religion', to you?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:23 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:43 pm since atheists draws on philosophical ideologies to guide ideas, behaviors, and actions, like that of any religion.

Why are you trying to suggest that atheists are a group with shared ideologies, when they are not?

If so called "atheists" are not a group with shared ideologies, to you, then what are 'atheists', to you, exactly?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:23 pm They are simply humans with a vast range of ideologies that do not include theism, wouldn't you agree?

Not really.

I would say for sure human beings are a group with a vast range of ideologies, but to me the word "atheists" put some of those human beings into a group, with one shared ideology. That 'ideology' just being a disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God.

To me, the 'ist' at the end of the word is done to form some sort of 'group', which usually believes some thing or other, or disbelieves some thing or other. And, this is WHY i do not identify nor relate to absolutely any 'ist' nor 'ism'. I also find it very humorous watching people do this in this forum.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:23 pm What ideas, behaviors, and actions do atheists have in common, that are not simply because they're HUMANS?

They either believe God does not exist or disbelieve in the existence of God.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:23 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:43 pm That is why atheist churches are called atheist churches.

If there are atheist churches, it is because humankind has a little bit of everything distributed throughout it... and yes, people do like making religions. Such things do not define the reality of/for all.

This appears to be a complete turn around.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:23 pm I do not even like identifying as an atheist because labels are insufficient and distorted in so many ways. But it does identify that I have no belief in gods. Beyond that determination, there are no atheist-focused activities or clubs I participate in. It does not affect who my friends are. It does not affect how I vote. It does not affect what I'm willing to talk about.

Are you sure of this one?

You appear to be affected by what you are willing to talk about here. For example, a person being identified as being a "theist" would not be willing to talk about believing God exists, because this goes against the very thing that they BELIEVE is true, that is; God does NOT exist.

Would you talk about God existing as though it is or even could be true?

If no, then that identity could be considered that you are affected.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:23 pm It just identifies that I do not share a belief that many others do

So, are you now saying that you actually are in a group with shared ideologies, beliefs, and/or views?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:23 pm -- and most of them DO order their lives around their belief, so it makes sense that they are identified as a religion. Can you see the difference?

Do you NOT order you life around your belief/s?

Are people with a belief, in some sort of sense identified with that belief, which could also be seen as a 'religion'?

Are you seeing what I am getting at?

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:02 pm [

Are you seeing what I am getting at?

+ 1 on your post.

While here.

Since following an ideology is a prerequisite of religion, atheism can be considered a religion, since atheists draws on philosophical ideologies to guide ideas, behaviors, and actions, like that of any religion. That is why atheist churches are called atheist churches.

Regards
DL

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:51 pm

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:35 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:17 pm
So that you can claim your beliefs are the best of all? Why are humans so willing to mindlessly allow their egos to completely distort truth to manipulate reality that they then push on others?

Because of the way the human brain works. Because blah blah blah blah blah....

Yes, I know all of that basic explanation, Age. I was prompting GIA to question themselves.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:35 pm I would say that 'you', "lacewing, are also very prone to doing this exact same thing yourself. But, I will not now because I KNOW of what that may cause.

Then why did you even say it?

To see what that would actually cause.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:51 pm You are showing what you and your brain do.

And what is 'that' exactly, which you say I am showing?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:51 pm Also, you've shown how much you misinterpret, and then you use that as an imagined reality to base your views on. It's not valid.

Will you provide any examples of what I have supposedly "misinterpreted"? If no, then why not?

To prove that what I have done "is not valid", you would first have to prove that I have actually "misinterpreted" anything here, and that I have then used that "misinterpretation" as some "imagined reality" to base my views on. You will also need to explain and show what 'my views' are exactly.

If you do not do all nor any of this, then what you are basing your views on here may just be some imagined reality of your own making and maybe just a complete misinterpretation, itself. So, we will have to wait and SEE.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:10 pm

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:02 pm [

Are you seeing what I am getting at?

+ 1 on your post.

What does "+ 1 on your post" mean?

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:10 pm While here.

Since following an ideology is a prerequisite of religion, atheism can be considered a religion, since atheists draws on philosophical ideologies to guide ideas, behaviors, and actions, like that of any religion. That is why atheist churches are called atheist churches.

Regards
DL

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:12 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:51 pm

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:35 pm I will not now because I KNOW of what that may cause.

Then why did you even say it?

To see what that would actually cause.

I'm not interested in going in your endless, misinterpreted circles and repetition, Age. In general, I do not view you as compelling or credible. I do not need to prove why to you. I'm just telling you that is what has resulted from your interactions with me and what I've seen of your interactions with other people. Sometimes you ask really great questions -- as any of us can! But, often, communicating with you is like getting bogged down in the swamp of your mind (sorry, that's how it seems... ), and I much prefer to fly. Please do not analyze that sentence in order to make your misinterpreted projections, as I'm not interested in your distorted or convoluted analysis.

I do wish you well.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:15 pm
What does "+ 1 on your post" mean?

It means that I stand to be counted as supporting your opinion.

Regards
DL

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:31 pm

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:12 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:51 pm
Then why did you even say it?

To see what that would actually cause.

I'm not interested in going in your endless, misinterpreted circles and repetition, Age.

Making claims, but NEVER backing them up NOR supporting them with anything at all is not the wisest thing to do in a philosophy forum.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:31 pm In general, I do not view you as compelling or credible.

I say, and support things, which oppose your views and/or beliefs.

Most people will NEVER view any thing compelling nor credible, which is contrary to their already held current views and beliefs. I do not see you to be any kind of a different person in this regard here.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:31 pm I do not need to prove why to you.

I KNOW you do not.

I NEVER thought you 'needed' to.

I just suggest to people that if they are going to make a claim that it is best for them that they have at least some thing to back up and support there claim, BEFORE they make the claim. You obviously do not think this is important at all. Even though we are in a philosophy forum.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:31 pm I'm just telling you that is what has resulted from your interactions with me and what I've seen of your interactions with other people.

This is perfectly reasonable and understandable, especially considering the way I write here.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:31 pm Sometimes you ask really great questions -- as any of us can! But, often, communicating with you is like getting bogged down in the swamp of your mind (sorry, that's how it seems... ), and I much prefer to fly.

Why do you feel the need to apologize for just being Honest. Honesty is what I am seeking and searching for from "others". So being Honest is certainly NOT some thing that one needs to apologize for, well with me anyway. I WANT MORE Honesty. The more brutal the Honesty, then the far better that is for me.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:31 pm Please do not analyze that sentence in order to make your misinterpreted projections, as I'm not interested in your distorted or convoluted analysis.

I do wish you well.

I suggest if you are Truly NOT interested, then do NOT read past this word.

You ONCE AGAIN make a claim, but which you obviously do not want to look at and discuss. If you want to make claims, then why do you NOT just back up and support them?

Also, assuming that my "projections" WILL BE "misinterpretations" just SHOWS and REVEALS how STRONG your BELIEFS are here.

Saying, "your mind" is a complete distortion of what is actually True. So, your misinterpretation here is VERY CLEAR.

The reason you perceive a sense of getting "bogged down" is because you fear delving deep-down into your true 'self' and fear looking at 'you' and your mis/behaviors Honestly. You prefer to just so call "fly" away so that you NEVER have to look at what thee actual Truth IS here, which you are completely FREE to do. And because this "flying" has become such a habitual way of thinking and behaving for you, you will most likely just keep 'flying away', instead of just being Truly OPEN and Honest with thy 'self'.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:37 pm

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:15 pm
What does "+ 1 on your post" mean?

It means that I stand to be counted as supporting your opinion.

Regards
DL

Thanks for clarifying.

But I am not actually looking for support. I much prefer looking for and being told what is actually false, wrong, and/or incorrect in what I say and write.

I will try to remember to not show my agreement with you in the future.

Regards
DL

Here's some more insight for you about your communication... you're welcome:

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm Making claims, but NEVER backing them up NOR supporting them with anything at all

Exaggeration.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm Most people will NEVER view any thing compelling nor credible, which is contrary to their already held current views and beliefs. I do not see you to be any kind of a different person in this regard here.

Exaggeration and projection.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm I just suggest to people that if they are going to make a claim that it is best for them that they have at least some thing to back up and support there claim, BEFORE they make the claim. You obviously do not think this is important at all.

Denial and projection. I've provided plenty of explanation to you. Which you seemed to acknowledge somewhat, below:

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:31 pm I'm just telling you that is what has resulted from your interactions with me and what I've seen of your interactions with other people.

This is perfectly reasonable and understandable, especially considering the way I write here.

But then you're right back at it...

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm You ONCE AGAIN make a claim, but which you obviously do not want to look at and discuss.

I told you why.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm Also, assuming that my "projections" WILL BE "misinterpretations" just SHOWS and REVEALS how STRONG your BELIEFS are here.

No, it shows that you are known to make projections and misinterpretations, over and over. I'm always open to you not doing that. But as shown in your response here, that's what you did again.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm The reason you perceive a sense of getting "bogged down" is because you fear delving deep-down into your true 'self' and fear looking at 'you' and your mis/behaviors

Projection.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pmYou prefer to just so call "fly" away so that you NEVER have to look at what thee actual Truth IS here

Misinterpretation and projection

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pmAnd because this "flying" has become such a habitual way of thinking and behaving for you

Projection

Is that clear enough for you?

Atheism is the counterpoint to theism. The question then becomes would atheism even exist as an idea or concept if theism itself never existed invoking its opposite. If atheism were not forced forward as a negation would it have any meaning at all, would the word even need to exist? If it weren't for the perverse psychological needs of humans there would have been no need to imagine any kind of theistic entity since nothing of the kind ever presented itself. Both Imagination and subterfuge are indispensable to theism in creating something out of nothing but like Yeats wrote the center cannot hold because there is no center. Since theism obviously exists having ruled the world for so long, it by its own illogic is forced to create a monster child proclaiming its parent is a fiction.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:47 pm Here's some more insight for you about your communication... you're welcome:

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm Making claims, but NEVER backing them up NOR supporting them with anything at all

Exaggeration.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm Most people will NEVER view any thing compelling nor credible, which is contrary to their already held current views and beliefs. I do not see you to be any kind of a different person in this regard here.

Exaggeration and projection.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm I just suggest to people that if they are going to make a claim that it is best for them that they have at least some thing to back up and support there claim, BEFORE they make the claim. You obviously do not think this is important at all.

Denial and projection. I've provided plenty of explanation to you. Which you seemed to acknowledge somewhat, below:

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:31 pm I'm just telling you that is what has resulted from your interactions with me and what I've seen of your interactions with other people.

This is perfectly reasonable and understandable, especially considering the way I write here.

But then you're right back at it...

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm You ONCE AGAIN make a claim, but which you obviously do not want to look at and discuss.

I told you why.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm Also, assuming that my "projections" WILL BE "misinterpretations" just SHOWS and REVEALS how STRONG your BELIEFS are here.

No, it shows that you are known to make projections and misinterpretations, over and over. I'm always open to you not doing that. But as shown in your response here, that's what you did again.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm The reason you perceive a sense of getting "bogged down" is because you fear delving deep-down into your true 'self' and fear looking at 'you' and your mis/behaviors

Projection.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pmYou prefer to just so call "fly" away so that you NEVER have to look at what thee actual Truth IS here

Misinterpretation and projection

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pmAnd because this "flying" has become such a habitual way of thinking and behaving for you

Projection

Is that clear enough for you?

What is clear, to me, is YOUR misinterpretations, which I am very keen to delve into, look at, and discuss openly and honestly, that is; if you really wanted to.

We can also then delve into, look at, and discuss openly and honestly MY interpretations, which you claim I make. Again, I am very keen to do this, that is; if you really want to as well?

And, what is also clear to me is your constant use of the word "projection" to and against "others" as though that means it is instantly true, right, and correct. You using that word also appears to me like an 'escape' or 'deflectionary' tactic of yours that you have learned so that you do not have to look at your own 'self'.

Now, once again, I am open to looking at ANY and EVERY accusation made at me. So, you just saying the words "projection" and "misinterpretation" in response to me is just you making a claim, which if you do not back up and support is a truly unsupported claim.

I can and will back up and support EVERY word I use, if and when I am questioned and challenged over them. In fact I want you to 'try' and question and challenge me over what I say, but you will not do that. You will just make accusations and claims about me, and "others", but when I 'try' to question and challenge you about them, you just resort to your "projection" and/or "misinterpretation" words, as though they have some sort of actual truth in them.

If there is any truth in your use of those words against me, then I want you to express very CLEARLY what that EXACT truth IS.

The actual flaws, faults, and inaccuracies that you have shown and pointed out already in what I have said already, I am NOT going yet tell you which ones I agree with until you start being Truly OPEN and Honest in your dealings with me.