Philosophy Now Forum

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:18 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:54 am The truth is that there is no truth.

It's just a word we learn how to use.

I think so too. Truth amounts to the best guess we can make according to the way we as humans perceive. Extend the senses or modify them and what determines truth changes accordingly.

But since there is no truth, what you say must also be false.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:23 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:18 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:54 am The truth is that there is no truth.

It's just a word we learn how to use.

I think so too. Truth amounts to the best guess we can make according to the way we as humans perceive. Extend the senses or modify them and what determines truth changes accordingly.

But since there is no truth, what you say must also be false.

Non-sequitur!

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:23 am But since there is no truth, what you say must also be false.

There is no truth is true. Not true does not mean false.

Dumb dichotomizer.

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:28 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:23 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:18 am

I think so too. Truth amounts to the best guess we can make according to the way we as humans perceive. Extend the senses or modify them and what determines truth changes accordingly.

But since there is no truth, what you say must also be false.

Non-sequitur!

Not true!

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:44 am Not true!

That's what we said. Not true doesn't make it false.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:06 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:44 am Not true!

That's what we said. Not true doesn't make it false.

You do not speak the truth.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:16 pm You do not speak the truth.

I do. Truth does not exist is true.

Everything said is falsehood. Everything unsaid is true.

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao;
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tao

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:36 am Truth are all the puzzle pieces we play with and seek to conjoin until we run out of pieces...or discover more beyond our current horizon forcing truth to be more complete though remaining always incomplete along its edges.

Oh, that's useful. So when you find the broken cookie jar and ask you son if he broke it, you won't know if he's telling the, "truth," or not until you have found, "all the puzzle pieces we play with and seek to conjoin until we run out of pieces...or discover more beyond our current horizon forcing truth to be more complete though remaining always incomplete along its edges..."

Good luck. The rest of us know, if he broke the cookie jar, and says he didn't, he's not telling the, truth, and if he broke the cookie jar, and says he did, he's telling the, truth." There isn't any other kind of truth.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:18 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:16 pm You do not speak the truth.

I do. Truth does not exist is true.

SInce nothing you can say is true, there is no point talking to you.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:43 pm SInce nothing you can say is true, there is no point talking to you.

Then why are you talking to me?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:09 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:43 pm SInce nothing you can say is true, there is no point talking to you.

Then why are you talking to me?

I like to point out to people when they are wrong, obviously.
Because there is a difference between truth and falsity, that means you are wrong. And just because the truth is not "out there", as I say above, does not mean it does not exist. Concepts exist.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:40 pm I like to point out to people when they are wrong, obviously.
Because there is a difference between truth and falsity, that means you are wrong. And just because the truth is not "out there", as I say above, does not mean it does not exist. Concepts exist.

Too bad you can't back up any of your words with any empiricism.

Surely 'existence' is a concept?

Where does existence exist? Is it 'in there' or 'out there' ?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:44 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:40 pm I like to point out to people when they are wrong, obviously.
Because there is a difference between truth and falsity, that means you are wrong. And just because the truth is not "out there", as I say above, does not mean it does not exist. Concepts exist.

Too bad you can't back up any of your words with any empiricism.

Surely 'existence' is a concept?

Where does existence exist?

Why ask about "empiricism" since that is no more than a concept too?
Are you trying to say that there are no concepts?
And if existence is just a concept who's to say that anything exists at all?
Fact is that the entire universe is understood through the fact that we conceive it. We are all concepts, as is every concrete thing in existence.
Since we have no alternative but to understand the world through our conception of it, there is nothing that is not primarily conceptual.
Thus saying something such as "there is no truth" is at best childish.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:50 pm Thus saying something such as "there is no truth" is at best childish.

It's at worst childish. It's at best - true.

A truth revealed simply by asking How would you recognise truth when you find it?

Truth = what is true = what is real = what exists independent of measurement (observation and opinion).

I don't cotton to the more crystal-rubbing, tree-hugging definition of truth as quasi-mysticism.