PC Imbecility

[vegetariantaxidermy]

PC-ness is (presently) a phenomenon of the Left. That might switch one day, but today, that's how it is.

It's the all the right-leaners that are arguing in favour of free speech. And that's the irony of it, because the correct term for an advocate of free speech is "classical liberal." Today, that means "conservative."

So what? It's still doesn't make everyone who votes more to 'the left' Politically Correct.

I never said it did. But it does make everyone who is PC "Left."

That's not the same thing as saying all 'lefties' are PC!

[Immanuel Can]

That's not the same thing as saying all 'lefties' are PC!

I said no such thing, of course. The PC'ers are a subset of the Left; the Left isn't a subset of the PC.

Still, it's an interesting question why the Left is content to remain the incubator for PC-ness. One would wish they would disassociate themselves from political correctness...but they don't seem to.

[commonsense]

PC-ness is (presently) a phenomenon of the Left. That might switch one day, but today, that's how it is.

It's the all the right-leaners that are arguing in favour of free speech. And that's the irony of it, because the correct term for an advocate of free speech is "classical liberal." Today, that means "conservative."

So what? It's still doesn't make everyone who votes more to 'the left' Politically Correct.

I never said it did. But it does make everyone who is PC "Left."

Thank you, IC, for your well reasoned, intelligent comments. Thank you, veg, for saying something.

[commonsense]

So what? It's still doesn't make everyone who votes more to 'the left' Politically Correct.

I never said it did. But it does make everyone who is PC "Left."

That's not the same thing as saying all 'lefties' are PC!

Like all whales are mammals, but not all mammals are whales. That’s what it’s the same thing as.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

So what? It's still doesn't make everyone who votes more to 'the left' Politically Correct.

I never said it did. But it does make everyone who is PC "Left."

Thank you, IC, for your well reasoned, intelligent comments. Thank you, veg, for saying something.

What a stupid comment. I was the one who pointed out to him (and have done so repeatedly) that 'left' and 'PC' are not the same thing.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

I never said it did. But it does make everyone who is PC "Left."

That's not the same thing as saying all 'lefties' are PC!

Like all whales are mammals, but not all mammals are whales. That’s what it’s the same thing as.

Of course. So when you want to talk about mammals all you have to do is say 'whales' and everyone will know what you mean. So humans are whales then. Thanks for clearing that up

[Immanuel Can]

Thank you, IC, for your well reasoned, intelligent comments. Thank you, veg, for saying something.

Thank you for your courtesy and balance.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Or even better; PCturds are humans, therefore all humans are PCturds

[Immanuel Can]

That's not the same thing as saying all 'lefties' are PC!

Like all whales are mammals, but not all mammals are whales. That’s what it’s the same thing as.

Of course. So when you want to talk about mammals all you have to do is say 'whales' and everyone will know what you mean. So humans are whales then. Thanks for clearing that up

You've inverted commonsense's argument.

As he/she said, "whale" is a subset of "mammals": he/she never said that all mammals are whales. Just so, the PC'ers are a subset of Leftists; Leftists are not a subset of PC'ers. There are some Leftists (like, presumably, yourself) who are not in the PC segment of Leftism.

Ridicule, in this case, was premature.

[commonsense]

I never said it did. But it does make everyone who is PC "Left."

Thank you, IC, for your well reasoned, intelligent comments. Thank you, veg, for saying something.

What a stupid comment. I was the one who pointed out to him (and have done so repeatedly) that 'left' and 'PC' are not the same thing.

Yes, you spoke out against something he did not say. Brilliant Brit Abdicates Brain!

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Thank you, IC, for your well reasoned, intelligent comments. Thank you, veg, for saying something.

What a stupid comment. I was the one who pointed out to him (and have done so repeatedly) that 'left' and 'PC' are not the same thing.

Yes, you spoke out against something he did not say. Brilliant Brit Abdicates Brain!

He never uses the term PC, he always just says 'leftists'. You two are clearly as stupid as one another. No wonder you give each other mutual back-pats.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Like all whales are mammals, but not all mammals are whales. That’s what it’s the same thing as.

Of course. So when you want to talk about mammals all you have to do is say 'whales' and everyone will know what you mean. So humans are whales then. Thanks for clearing that up

You've inverted commonsense's argument.

As he/she said, "whale" is a subset of "mammals": he/she never said that all mammals are whales. Just so, the PC'ers are a subset of Leftists; Leftists are not a subset of PC'ers. There are some Leftists (like, presumably, yourself) who are not in the PC segment of Leftism.

Ridicule, in this case, was premature.

I give up

[Immanuel Can]

I give up

That news somehow fails to disquiet me.

[Scott Mayers]

It comes down to compassion v competition.

Compassion boils down to, “If humans are all equal, I must treat everyone the way I feel I should be treated.”

Competition can be reduced to, “If humans are all equal, all others must be able to gain as much as I have.”

Each side doubts the sincerity of the other. Each is a valid sentiment on its own, but together quite contradictory.

Yes, this is one example that treats the differences to be based upon logical classification rather than the emotive classification. The discrimination regarding equal pay isn't targeting women; it targets those who are less agressive, a quality only superficially connected to the class, "women" and changes in different times and places.

@Immanuel Can.....I use the word 'equality' and "equality of mind" to refer to all those on the same level of competence. That mental illness acts to differentiate some thinkers is not relevant to what I mean. I don't see sex as what differentiates one's logical capacity or understanding. That is, there is no such thing as "alternative logic" of any arbitrary woman's thinking to any arbitrary male, even though the average women might prefer the emotional means of persuasion more often. Logic is universally applicable on the level of individuals regardless of sex. Just because men may be more agressive on average and women more emotional, the logical problem of pay differences is culturally owned by both men and women. Western women, for instance, prefer taller and physically stronger males which THEY selectively are at fault should they interpret men as intrinsically 'agressive'. All men as a class do not OWN the quality of agression that might be a major factor to those men who tend to get paid more.

I've noticed that part of the contemporary confusion between people discussing this relates to what is literally meant by 'equality.' A friend I agree with too has said that women think differently but meant what is average about HOW they might process reasoning. Women are 'culturally' more social and so by mere accident will tend to prefer rationalizing with emotional-based reasoning; this doesn't mean that EACH woman of the class 'women' should be treated as rationally emoitional. THAT is what I think is inappropriate.

[Note that mental illnesses, by the way, does not make them LESS 'logically' abled. If one merely has a high metabolism, for instance, that can come across as a 'mental illness' because such a person might interpret others talking too slowly. A dog, for instance, has a higher metabolism than humans to such a degree that it is annoying for them to be as equally patient as a human to be WILLING to learn upon tasks they are both CAPABLE of 'equally'.Think of 'mental illness' as a relative defect, not necessarily an actual one to nature itself. A faster metabolism of some individual, for instance, can be a potential advantage if utilized in their environment effectively. But I understood what you meant on the example. Menatl illness IS a 'logical' reality that affects their capacities but is 'equally' problematic regardless of which sex you happen to be.]

[gaffo]

It comes down to compassion v competition.

This is the belief that Jonathan Haigt's recent book brings into doubt.

Leftists always think that Conservatives are "uncompassionate," and that they are the "compassionate ones." But they're not. There's a way of being a Leftists that hurts people in the name of equality.

One way is when equality-advocacy gets taken over by what Nietzsche called "ressentiment," meaning a poisonous hatred of all those who have an advantage. It's spite, in the name of equality. Then, they call people "oppressors," and justify hatred toward them: "Go punch a Nazi," they say. Or they say, "The 1% is exploiting us all, and must be pulled down" -- ignoring, all the while, that every person who makes over $32,000 a year is a member of the world's 1%!

They're spouting hatred against themselves!

And how foolish is that?

Another is when unwise "compassion" leads us to extend or exacerbate a kind of human suffering in the name of "equality." An example would be when we refuse to help anyone afflicted with body-dysmorphic disorders, and instead pretend they're "equal" to people untroubled by mental illness. Or when people from the Developed World ship bundles of clothing to the Developing World for free, and thus destroy the local economy in the Developing World (in one case I know of, the 14 biggest clothing manufacturers in the nation, and all their employees, were put out of jobs by this practice.)

"Compassion" can be misguided and even cruel...especially when it becomes spiteful, and promotes jealousy, or self-satisfied, and does not regard the real-world consequences of what it does.

Meanwhile, competition can be very good. The reason that world poverty has been falling so rapidly recently is not due to thoughtless "compassion," but to the enabling of local businesses through microenterprise -- a little compassion and help, allowing people to compete.

So to bifurcate the problem this way is unwise. There are good and bad competitions, and good and bad compassions.

Why do you insist on using the the word 'leftists' to describe PCturds as if it's a foregone conclusion that anyone who doesn't vote 'conservatively' is automatically PC? They are separate concepts entirely. It's like saying that everyone who is 'conservative' is a Nazi. It's just ignorant, lazy and disturbing. Yank illiteracy is a creeping cancer that isn't just about a bad grammar and misspellings.

its because folks like me - a 70's Liberal Democrat - are left out in the new term - Progressive.

I'm the former not the latter.

and a registered Independant in my nation now - former Democrat.