Philosophy Now Forum

Ramu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:25 pmIt's quite funny how you all pretty much miss DAM's point. No your phone isn't surveilling you. She's basically saying there is no separation and no subject/object distinction. One must understand that non duality is a highly nuanced thing, which most people STUCK in the Materialist Paradigm will never understand. There is no you...and no brain that "represents" you.
.......yadda yadda ..blabla ..bla

You sound skitzo, ever been diagnosed with something serious? ..or is it just low IQ?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:07 am As you look at your smart phone or tv .. simultaneously in the instantaneous contact, your smart phone or tv is looking at you.

Same applies to the natural world, as you look upon the world, the world is looking at you in the exact same instant.

There is no separation between the seer and the seen.

Reality or existence or whatever you want to call it, is an automatic self-sustaining sensory feedback loop upon itself ONLY.

ThE holographic simulation reality THEORY is true. Ironically a simulation has no access to truth, it is the truth.

And language aka knowledge informs the illusory nature of this reality as being holographically hollow to the core.

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indeed they are watching noting your where abouts!

I bought my first smartphone 3 moths ago, to use it a a "sirius XM" radio - via andoid auto, to listen to my "internet fav" radio stations i learned about via my Grace tabletops 10 yrs earlier. WDVX, radioactvie.fm.etc.........via on the road. via my t-mobile phone.

I use my "smartphone" - got it free as a never "phoner" and just pay 50 bucks a month for data, as a radio only.

nothing more.

as for smart TV's, fuck no. I have a PC and a dumb TV is it's 60 inch monitor! seven yrs now.

next TV will prob be a "smart" type "sell sell sell subcriptions!!!!!!!!!. when/if i buy my next TV i will never "sign up" to the mothership,. and instead us it like i do my current, as a dumb monitor to my PC.

as it should be.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:49 pm "It's quite funny how you all pretty much miss DAM's point."

As I say up-thread: I got it. I just thought her take was boring, so I twisted things to make 'em spicy.

#

Well you are of course more than welcome to say my take was boring because empty or unfilled spaces are unnatural. But then again there's a lot of gold to be found in them there depths, ironically!

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:49 pm"No your phone isn't surveilling you."

Yes, it is (or would be if I didn't take steps).

Your phone is your projection screen, the only place you appear to happen. Same with the natural world, any thing seen outwardly is the ''looked upon'' ...it's your inner projection...your mirror image.

The smartphone itself cannot take a picture of itself, and it's the same for you the person, you cannot see your original face, you can only see the image you are projecting outwardly simultaneously looking back at you. In other words, the ''looked upon'' is also what's looking.

Aka...No thing appearing as thing.

Only about 1 in 5 million people ever see this properly, it's deep, and is why those who see it get called crazy...but it's ok, we already know we are crazy, so it's not a problem for us.



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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:55 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:49 pm "It's quite funny how you all pretty much miss DAM's point."

As I say up-thread: I got it. I just thought her take was boring, so I twisted things to make 'em spicy.

#

Well you are of course more than welcome to say my take was boring because empty or unfilled spaces are unnatural. But then again there's a lot of gold to be found in them there depths, ironically!

And what is this "gold" supposed to be, which there is a lot of, in them there depths?

'Gold' to 'you', adult human beings, when this is written, is mostly related to riches, which to 'you', same human beings, relates to money, and thus eventually to greed.

So, I hope there is not to much greed down in them there depths to be found and had. There is way too much greed in the days of when this is written, surely?

If there is still more greed to be found and had, then the downhill spiral 'you' are on now is going to go much faster and much quicker towards your demise.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:55 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:49 pm"No your phone isn't surveilling you."

Yes, it is (or would be if I didn't take steps).

Your phone is your projection screen, the only place you appear to happen. Same with the natural world, any thing seen outwardly is the ''looked upon'' ...it's your inner projection...your mirror image.

Who and/or what is this 'you', which 'YOU' keep on talking about?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:55 amThe smartphone itself cannot take a picture of itself, and it's the same for you the person, you cannot see your original face, you can only see the image you are projecting outwardly simultaneously looking back at you.

'you' always talk as though the 'you' is some visible thing, which it OBVIOUSLY is NOT.

Obviously the 'you', which is just the non visible 'thoughts' within a human body, can NOT be seen with human eyes.

So, there is NO need to say EVER AGAIN things like, "you cannot see your original face". OBVIOUSLY, a non visible thing can NOT be seen with human eyes.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:55 am In other words, the ''looked upon'' is also what's looking.

What do you mean when 'you' say, for example, a 'tree' is ALSO what is looking?

What does a 'tree' use to LOOK and SEE?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:55 amAka...No thing appearing as thing.

What 'you' actually mean IS, on a superficial level, as 'you' still have some way to go to get to the deeper MEANING of ALL things collectively is, the brain is obtaining information from the outward 'looking' eyes, and what is seen when 'looked out at' (from its self) are images, the information from these images are transformed into knowledge, which is just 'thought', which is just what 'you' are, and/or become. 'you' a non visible (or no thing) now appearing as the imaged 'thing'.

Now, when 'looking out' from the physical body, from the perspective of the non visible thoughts, what is actually seen, and recognized in relation to past received seen information, which is actually being projected as being separate "things", is just a part of the illusion that is Life, and living itself. Obviously, when "looking" from thoughts, which is just 'you', (or with the human eyes) you will obviously not see 'you', the illusion of self.

The 'NO thing' is just the non visible 'self', which is just another label placed on to some thing which itself is not an actual visible thing. That label is, literally, 'you', the 'person', which is just the non visible 'thoughts' with-IN a human body.

The "looked upon", by the human eyes, is just the income information, which then gets turned into 'thought', which is, literally, just 'you' what is looking. Or, in other words the image seen is what is 'looking'.

There are far more many layers and levels to the deeper and FULL understanding of this, which can be used to explain in as much detail as necessary ALL-OF-THIS. At every detail on every level what is PROVIDED is the actual EVIDENCE and PROOF to back up and support ANY and ALL-OF-THIS. So that it can ALL be completely UNDERSTOOD, once and for ALL, by ALL.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:55 amOnly about 1 in 5 million people ever see this properly, it's deep, and is why those who see it get called crazy

Remember I am the one who is being seen as, and being labeled as, the most craziest, and dumbest, one here.

As far as this one little STUPID person, writing this is aware of, there is about 1 in 7.5 billion people who is SEEING this now, but this one Truly does NOT want to SEE this anymore, this one was much happier before seeing any of this, but this one is also unable to stop wanting to just learn how (in hell) to communicate and express this better. Not for the sake of them, but for the sake of ALL.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:55 am...but it's ok, we already know we are crazy, so it's not a problem for us.



.

Already knowing and understanding this makes me wonder, WHY then does any one here think that I am disagreeing or even fighting with them?

I am just wanting my views of things CHALLENGED AND QUESTIONED, is this really too much to ask for?

I am NOT here to prove, nor disprove, any thing. I just KNOW some thing, which I want to share, but which also happens to NOT be fully aligned with what "others" see and say.

Thee actual Truth of things is deep inside of what is said and expressed, from ALL of US. The Truth is with-IN the WORDS we use. If we do NOT challenge each "other" and question each "other" about what is actually being SAID and MEANT, for clarity of Truth, then how are we ever going to get to the 'bottom' of UNDERSTANDING, each "other" fully, which collectively is just thee Real and True Self?

The Truth lies at the bottom, and it is the bottom where under-STANDING IS, and is laying waiting to be found, and had.

I am the Truth, which is NOT above any of 'you'. 'I', the Truth, am thee Real Self, and I am DEEP, ALIVE with-IN ALL of 'you'.

(The human being writing these words is of absolutely no concern anyway. The human being, which I am using to write these words, as 'you' human beings, say, continually FUCKS UP, what it is that I am REALLY 'trying to' EXPRESS and SAY. This can be clearly EVIDENCED and PROVEN by how the writings have "progressed" in a completely useless and incomprehensible ways at times, so far. But this human being will not be exiting for much longer anyway so, literally, do NOT 'look at' these words nor even be concerned about if they are right or wrong, but LOOK down at them, at a much deeper level and SEE the meaning and thee intention BEHIND the WORDS used here. Do NOT look at what the actual words say, because at first glance a lot of the time the words are made to appear absurd and contradictory, but LOOK AT the meaning and intention behind the words. This is LITERALLY a 'paradox' because a paradox, contrary to popular belief is what should be sought out and looked for. A 'paradox' is literally where the RICHES in Life are found and to be had. On first glance the word 'paradox' is some thing to NOT look for and is some thing which most say to stay well clear of and from, especially if 'you' are known as a "scientist". However, on a much deeper level the actual meaning and intention BEHIND the word 'paradox' itself IS;
A seemingly absurd or contradictory statement or proposition which when investigated may prove to be well founded or true.

The word 'paradox' to most is, literally, a paradox. NOT from the first glanced and misinterpreted meaning, but literally from the well founded truth in and of itself.

Now, I can not EXPOSE the Truth, and what the basis of what the actual Truth is well founded on, if I am NEVER challenged NOR questioned in regards to my statements and propositions. This is because at first glance whatever is written is, literally, just taken on 'face' value. 'face value' is literally what one SEES and BELIEVES it is, without EVER clarifying. This is like what was said above;
you cannot see your original face [the True face (value)], you can only see the image you are projecting outwardly simultaneously looking back at you.

'you' cannot see the actual Truth if what 'you' are projecting outwardly is just your own person version of the truth, and what 'you' want to SEE is what 'you' will GET BACK.)

"Your phone is your projection screen, the only place you appear to happen."

My phone is a microphone, one I intend to control (it belongs to me, I paid for the hardware, pay for the service; it's not an open window anyone gets to peek through or listen at). And 'me', I'm a real, on-going, tangible, agent.

Dontaskme wrote:
There is no separation between the seer and the seen

From a Gods Eye Perspective this is very true but the problem is that it is very hard if not impossible for virtually
everyone to actually understand this because they see everything from their own internal subjective perspective

But I can at least understand the concept of brains occurring within Consciousness rather than the other way round [ consciousness
occurring within brains ] even if I am still ultimately conditioned to seeing everything from my own internal subjective perspective

Accepting it completely can be very hard indeed because it is so counter intuitive although that does not necessarily make it false

The notion that everything is connected to everything else however is easier to accept even for a subjective mind because that is more obvious
But the notion of Consciousness while not incompatible with this is harder to accept as it actually denies the very concept of a subjective mind

Ramu wrote:
One must understand that non duality is a highly nuanced thing which most people STUCK in the Materialist Paradigm will never understand

It is an incredibly nuanced thing and for the most part is inaccessible even as a concept because materialism is taken to be the default position
Now I may have a materialist worldview myself but I can still think outside of that and contemplate the possibility of alternative interpretations

Age wrote:
you cannot see the actual Truth if what you are projecting outwardly is just your own person version of the truth

This is both a very simple and profound statement and one that can easily be understood by anyone who really wants to
Ones own subjective and / or emotional version of truth is absolutely not the same as the actual objective truth as such

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:36 pm

Ramu wrote:
One must understand that non duality is a highly nuanced thing which most people STUCK in the Materialist Paradigm will never understand

It is an incredibly nuanced thing

But non duality is not nuanced at all, to me. Non duality is as startling obvious, well to me any, as the words on this screen are.

Non duality just means there is NO separation as every perceived thing is a part of and all together just make up Everything as One. This can be plainly seen and very easily and very simply explained.

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:36 pmand for the most part is inaccessible even as a concept

Non duality, well for me anyway, is as accessible in physical form just as it is in concept form. After all non duality is what IS, and obviously what IS can not be refuted in any logical nor reasonable way.

For example, tell me where separation exists in actual form, and not just in your imagination/concept. If you can in sound, valid argument form, then I will obviously be corrected. Until then I can not see separation anywhere in the One whole.

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:36 pmbecause materialism is taken to be the default position

Are there material things existing?

If yes, then obviously they are much easier to see, with and from the human eyes perspective of things, than what IS not physical, so obviously what appears to be the so called "default" position is held by those who are not open to looking at all things. And, remember adult human beings have learned to look at and see things from their own perspective only, mostly. Children are not taught to look at and see the Truth, yet.

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:36 pmNow I may have a materialist worldview myself but I can still think outside of that and contemplate the possibility of alternative interpretations

But why contemplate the possibility of alternative interpretations? This is just yet another form of assuming.

Why not just look at what IS the one and only actual Truth of things instead, and concentrate on This, instead of just imagining what could after all not possibly exist anyway? Remember there can be as many "interpretations" as there are human beings, but there can only be One True Reality. So, looking at or contemplating on alternative interpretations just takes you away from the Truth of Reality.

One of the reasons adult human beings have yet to discover and see the One True Reality is because they prefer to look at "interpretations" instead of just looking at thee Truth only. This is just because they have not yet learned how to look at the see the Truth. Adult human beings especially love to just look at, concentrate on, and share their own personal "interpretation" only. Believing that singular to be thee true and right one. These human beings have forgotten to just live, and to just look at what IS essentially Real and True, ONLY.

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:43 pm

Age wrote:
you cannot see the actual Truth if what you are projecting outwardly is just your own person version of the truth

This is both a very simple and profound statement and one that can easily be understood by anyone who really wants to
Ones own subjective and / or emotional version of truth is absolutely not the same as the actual objective truth as such

See, the one and only actual Truth of things can be found, very simply and very easily, if and when one is Truly open.

Being open just means not outwardly projecting your own personal version of the truth.

I would also suggest if we add the 'necessarily' in between the word 'the' and 'same' in your second sentence, then this would make the sentence more true?

As the Truth IS one's own subjective and/or emotional version of truth may actually be (coincidentally and unintentionally) the same as the actual objective Truth IS. But the fact still remains that if you are projecting outwardly your own personal version of the truth, then that means that you are not being Truly open, and therefore you may miss seeing that your version of truth does actually align with how the actual objective Truth does.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:34 pm "Your phone is your projection screen, the only place you appear to happen."

My phone is a microphone, one I intend to control (it belongs to me, I paid for the hardware, pay for the service; it's not an open window anyone gets to peek through or listen at). And 'me', I'm a real, on-going, tangible, agent.

Yes, this is True in a sense of your personal story, as you've been programmed and conditioned by your specific cultural society to accept as truth...but I'm going deeper on this subject.

There really is nothing happening until there is an awareness of sorts..when unborn latent awareness knows sensation simultaneously consciousness is born... energy flows where attention goes.

There is no subject / object distinction anywhere in reality except in this artificial mind-made conceptual conception. AKA with the dream of separation...appearing as the story of I ..or as the IoT (the internet of things) aka the InnerNet

Things /concepts are images of the imageless...aka the mind.

So yeah, in a sense you are right and wrong both. For there is no doer, yet nothing is left undone.

You really don't exist Henry as the doer, you never chose to do a single action in your entire life, no more than you made the decision to push yourself out of your mothers womb.

Research what I'm saying for yourself, or you probably know it already, whatever, this knowledge cannot be refuted.

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:36 am
Research what I'm saying for yourself, or you probably know it already, whatever, this knowledge cannot be refuted.

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Is this BELIEF in one's own version of truth, which is being projected outward as knowledge here, and CLAIMED to being irrefutable a sign of absolute True Awareness, or of a very closed individual human being?

Parts of that knowledge, which you say cannot be refuted, actually can be very easily and very simply refuted.

"You really don't exist Henry as the doer"

As I say: I'm a real, on-going, tangible, agent (same as you). I choose, I do (same as you).

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:30 pm "You really don't exist Henry as the doer"

As I say: I'm a real, on-going, tangible, agent (same as you). I choose, I do (same as you).

Stardust popped aware = Nothing is real.

Age wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:
Ones own subjective and / or emotional version of truth is absolutely not the same as the actual objective truth as such

we add the necessarily in between the word the and same in your second sentence then this would make the sentence more true

Ones own subjective and / or emotional version of truth is usually not the same as the actual objective truth as such