Philosophy Now Forum

WHEN EXACTLY are 'you' going to SHOW just HOW 'you' have lost control of "your" "mind"?

Age wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:36 pm WHEN EXACTLY are 'you' going to SHOW just HOW 'you' have lost control of "your" "mind"?

Roy sez he's in control of his mind cuz he knows how to turn it off, or somesuch, so he'll only show you how you've lost control of yours (which apparently has sumthin' to do with the average schmo bring unable or unwillin' to turn his mind off).

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:43 pm

Age wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:36 pm WHEN EXACTLY are 'you' going to SHOW just HOW 'you' have lost control of "your" "mind"?

Roy sez he's in control of his mind cuz he knows how to turn it off, or somesuch, so he'll only show you how you've lost control of yours (which apparently has sumthin' to do with the average schmo bring unable or unwillin' to turn his mind off).

The seed has been planted.

roydop wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:43 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:43 pm

Age wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:36 pm WHEN EXACTLY are 'you' going to SHOW just HOW 'you' have lost control of "your" "mind"?

Roy sez he's in control of his mind cuz he knows how to turn it off, or somesuch, so he'll only show you how you've lost control of yours (which apparently has sumthin' to do with the average schmo bring unable or unwillin' to turn his mind off).

The seed has been planted.

nope

the seed has been examined, found wanting (substandard), and discarded

Age wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:57 pm

Dimebag wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:27 pm This is a question for Age. I am finding it difficult to read your text. When you capitalise a word, how am I supposed to read that, do I emphasise the word?

Things would make more sense and be much clearer, from another perspective, if the capitalized word/s were heard more loudly, thought about more, and empathized more. For example when the 'all' word is used is usually just generally means more in a group and not necessarily all of that group, so when I use the ALL word (capitalized) then I MEAN ALL or absolutely EVERY one of the group. Capitalized 'EVERY' MEANS the SAME as ALL. 'MEANS' capitalized MEANS absolutely or literally, and not just halfheartedly meant. 'SAME' capitalized mean EXACTLY the same. 'EXACTLY capitalized means without one solitary thing different.

Dimebag wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:27 pmWhen I do this, and read your text in this way, I start to feel like an agitated crazy person. Is that the message you are trying to convey? Being agitated and crazy? Just wondering. Thanks.

I do have a very bad habitat of NOT explaining things fully so as to be self-defeating. So, maybe I am sub or unconsciously writing in that way to make people agitated and/or crazy so they stop reading what I write, in order to fulfill some self-defeating prophecy somehow.

The "struggle" here is LEARNING how to explain who what thee True Self IS, with little selves who actually BELIEVE that they already KNOW who they ARE.

When I use capitalized words maybe that is to empathize the ABSOLUTENESS of that word. I am still in a learning process of working out what writing style to use so that I want to say and expressed is done a Truly clear and succinct way.

I apologize for causing 'you' to feel like an agitated crazy person. But, if 'you' have any advice at all, this would be much appreciated. For example, when I use the 'all human beings' words how could I use it in a way that specifically shows and/or highlights that I literally mean absolutely ALL or absolutely EVERY human being. Not just the majority, not just the ones living at the time when this is written nor being read, but absolutely EVERY single human being that has, is, and will exist for all times?

I would suggest that you probably have the vocabulary necessary to elaborate on whatever point you are trying to make, so if some point needs to be made then simply elaborating is the best means, as a capitalised word tends to come across as frustration, or at least that is my interpretation, so if you want discussion and not oppositional transactions I would avoid overusing full capital words.

As far as the true self, I believe I know what you speak of, however, I also think it’s difficult to function entirely authentically in the western world with no ego. Being an individualistic society, the ego is highly amplified, and society also functions to amplify this through technology and media, especially social media, which seems very ego based.

I think as we age and the ego grows around the “true self” as you call it, we become confused and think the ego to be the real self, but as it’s constantly growing and parts of it are dying, we cling to it like a life raft, in fear of becoming adrift in a sea of non identification.

Then when real change happens in a person’s life, and large parts of the ego fall away to time and change, they can become highly destabilised, in the form of a crisis, which can either lead to self destruction, or to searching, maybe for a new skin to embody, a new identity to try on and see if it fits. The identity tends to tie itself to a group of some kind as a means of defence against vulnerability, so to live without an ego and without identifying with some group is to be vulnerable in some way.

Dimebag wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:41 am

Age wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:57 pm

Dimebag wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:27 pm This is a question for Age. I am finding it difficult to read your text. When you capitalise a word, how am I supposed to read that, do I emphasise the word?

Things would make more sense and be much clearer, from another perspective, if the capitalized word/s were heard more loudly, thought about more, and empathized more. For example when the 'all' word is used is usually just generally means more in a group and not necessarily all of that group, so when I use the ALL word (capitalized) then I MEAN ALL or absolutely EVERY one of the group. Capitalized 'EVERY' MEANS the SAME as ALL. 'MEANS' capitalized MEANS absolutely or literally, and not just halfheartedly meant. 'SAME' capitalized mean EXACTLY the same. 'EXACTLY capitalized means without one solitary thing different.

Dimebag wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:27 pmWhen I do this, and read your text in this way, I start to feel like an agitated crazy person. Is that the message you are trying to convey? Being agitated and crazy? Just wondering. Thanks.

I do have a very bad habitat of NOT explaining things fully so as to be self-defeating. So, maybe I am sub or unconsciously writing in that way to make people agitated and/or crazy so they stop reading what I write, in order to fulfill some self-defeating prophecy somehow.

The "struggle" here is LEARNING how to explain who what thee True Self IS, with little selves who actually BELIEVE that they already KNOW who they ARE.

When I use capitalized words maybe that is to empathize the ABSOLUTENESS of that word. I am still in a learning process of working out what writing style to use so that I want to say and expressed is done a Truly clear and succinct way.

I apologize for causing 'you' to feel like an agitated crazy person. But, if 'you' have any advice at all, this would be much appreciated. For example, when I use the 'all human beings' words how could I use it in a way that specifically shows and/or highlights that I literally mean absolutely ALL or absolutely EVERY human being. Not just the majority, not just the ones living at the time when this is written nor being read, but absolutely EVERY single human being that has, is, and will exist for all times?

I would suggest that you probably have the vocabulary necessary to elaborate on whatever point you are trying to make, so if some point needs to be made then simply elaborating is the best means, as a capitalised word tends to come across as frustration, or at least that is my interpretation, so if you want discussion and not oppositional transactions I would avoid overusing full capital words.

Fair enough, and makes sense.

Dimebag wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:41 amAs far as the true self, I believe I know what you speak of, however, I also think it’s difficult to function entirely authentically in the western world with no ego. Being an individualistic society, the ego is highly amplified, and society also functions to amplify this through technology and media, especially social media, which seems very ego based.

I think as we age and the ego grows around the “true self” as you call it, we become confused and think the ego to be the real self, but as it’s constantly growing and parts of it are dying, we cling to it like a life raft, in fear of becoming adrift in a sea of non identification.

The belief that the "little self"is the real "self", as opposed to the actual real True Self, and the fear of this little believed self not being the real Self is why that self clings to itself, even more stronger.

This little 'self' is just the 'person', or the 'thoughts and feelings' within a human body. Because this 'self' is the 'thoughts' that is why 'thoughts' become more resistant to any thing other than what is believed to be true. The belief in what is already 'thought' to be true becomes stronger and strong, other that part of the person does die, and what is left clings, literally, to its own self, literally, like a life raft. The only thing it can cling to is its self.

Dimebag wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:41 amThen when real change happens in a person’s life, and large parts of the ego fall away to time and change, they can become highly destabilised, in the form of a crisis, which can either lead to self destruction, or to searching, maybe for a new skin to embody, a new identity to try on and see if it fits.

Or, there is another way where instead of any instability happening, actually absolute, true stability comes, and forms stronger. This is done through absolute Honesty, Openness, and a serious Want to change, for the better. When this happens, then the little ego self is let go off and the real True Self takes over.

Dimebag wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:41 amThe identity tends to tie itself to a group of some kind as a means of defence against vulnerability, so to live without an ego and without identifying with some group is to be vulnerable in some way.

But I find the exact opposite to be True.

I absolutely do not identify with any group at all.
I have already discussed my views on "isms" and "ists". I have also shown how there can be no actual real agreement made on things like; "muslims", "christians", "jews", "buddhists", "americans", "israelis" "swedes", "new zealanders", "scientists", "priests", "doctors", "lawyers", or any other of the attempts to place human beings into groups.

I am absolutely not vulnerable in any way at all.
I have already discussed my views about how I absolutely every thing I say can be backed up and support with evidence and proof.

'I' am, after all, God. So, no identifying with any group at all, and, absolutely no vulnerability at all.

I am open and ready to discuss any of this or absolutely any thing else.

It is not natural for a person to be thoughtless. This is an ability which must be cultivated. It must be acquired. It must be practiced. You won’t have it until you train for it.

I think at minimum, people would seriously benefit from becoming more mindful, or meta-aware, observing the contents of their minds as much as possible. Even if thought wasn’t eliminated completely. For many people, that isn’t an option, thought is necessary for their way of life, so unless the entire western world is going to be transformed into something completely different I think this is a good alternative that might fit more with the western way of life.

Dimebag wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:15 pm I think at minimum, people would seriously benefit from becoming more mindful, or meta-aware, observing the contents of their minds as much as possible. Even if thought wasn’t eliminated completely. For many people, that isn’t an option, thought is necessary for their way of life, so unless the entire western world is going to be transformed into something completely different I think this is a good alternative that might fit more with the western way of life.

You know, a variation of what Roy suggests does work. When a man works, actually uses his body in labor, the mind tends to lean out, focus, get quiet. It's called engagement.

Dimebag wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:15 pm I think at minimum, people would seriously benefit from becoming more mindful, or meta-aware, observing the contents of their minds as much as possible.

To first be able to observe the "contents of one's mind" one would need to know who and/or what 'they' are, how they are in relation to some "mind" thing, and know what this "mind" thing actually is, which has contents.

I say this because, to me, of the obviously absurd and contradictory nature of these types of proposals. What does " becoming more "mindful" ", actually infer or mean?

To me, " becoming more 'Aware' " of all things would seriously benefit any one. But what does " observing the contents of a "mind" " actually mean, and how is this done.

I will Honestly admit that the advice is great, and the outcome is absolutely rewarding and fulfilling, but do any of 'you' actually know what " observing the contents of a "mind" " actually involves and/or entails?

What is needed first in order to even be able to " observe the contents of "their" "mind" " is to have an understanding of what the "mind" actually is. Does any one now dare to explain in full detail what the "mind" is, actually, and have that definition fit in perfectly with every thing else in the Universe?

If I can make a suggestion here, on just about nearly every occasion the word "mind" is just this is synonymous with the word 'thoughts'. So, when sayings like, " observing the contents of "their" "mind" as much as possible, " are stated, then what works perfectly, in relation with every thing else is, this just means 'stand back from the thoughts occurring, within that body, and observe as much of them as can possibly be done, which is all of them by the way. But this takes constant concentration at an absolute full Awareness level, or just being "mindful", as some say.

Now, there is no one human being person who has "their" "mind", just like there is no one person who has "their" "thoughts". There are no separate individual "minds" owned by individual separate "selves". There are, however, individual separate people, who live within individual separate human bodies. These people do not have their own "minds" nor "thoughts", these 'people' are literally 'thoughts', themselves. An individual separate 'person' is just the individual separate 'thoughts', which exists within an individual separate human body. Because the 'you' is the 'thoughts', there is no 'you' that has thoughts. 'you' are thoughts.

There is A Mind existing, which is always Truly open, but there are no individual separate "minds" existing. There are, however, obviously individual separate thoughts existing, within each individual old enough living human body. These 'thoughts' are literally what 'you' are, those 'thoughts' make 'you', who 'you' are. Now, to be able to "stand back", as they say, from this "self", then one has to go beyond and above that "human self", which just means become more "mindful", more Aware, or more just God-like. Stepping out of the 'human being', and becoming and/or being more God-like, or just having more Awareness, just means becoming the God Being instead of the human being. This is a learning practice, which just entails letting go of the thinking human being, and becoming or being the Knowing God Being.

Individual separate thoughts/you are not necessarily an absolute true and right reflection of the "world", thoughts are just a perception of the "world". When 'you' are expressing what is literally being expressed is 'yourself', the individual thoughts within that body, so what is being expressed is just one individual view of the "world". When thoughts are being expressed, this is just a perception, or view, of the "world", but this is not necessarily a true nor right view, perception, nor reflection of the real and true "world". The real or True "world" is the one that EVERY one agrees with. (Now for those that will say just because everyone agrees this does not make it true nor right, then to those ones remember this is the most accurate view or picture of the "world" that is ever going to come about. Also, if absolutely every one is agreeing that this view, perception, or reflection of the "world" is true and right, then, at that moment or for that time being, there is absolutely no one saying that it is not right and not true, anyway).

Dimebag wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:15 pmEven if thought wasn’t eliminated completely.

For the human being to exist, 'thought' could not be eliminated completely. To not think for an hour or so would mean that the body could not move for an hour or so. Absolutely nothing could be achieved, other than living in and with the feeling of absolute Bliss, which may sound fantastic and perfect, but only a few very short seconds of feeling like this is enough to drive one to do what it would take to create this happiness and joy feeling to last much longer while still moving around and living like a 'human being'. A person can not get anywhere that it wanted to go without thinking "where do I want to go", and without the 'thoughts' that are needed to drive that body in that direction. To always feel Bliss while still moving and doing, instead of of just feeling Bliss while not moving and not doing any thing, has a goal and thus brings with it purpose to life and living. What purpose is there in feeling Bliss but having to be absolutely STILL to achieve this?

Dimebag wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:15 pmFor many people, that isn’t an option, thought is necessary for their way of life, so unless the entire western world is going to be transformed into something completely different I think this is a good alternative that might fit more with the western way of life.

There is a way to eliminate thought completely, which would transform any and all previous ways of life into a much better way of life, and living, which would eliminate the old "western" ways completely. This just entails changing from thinking what is true and right, and moving up the next level or step of evolution by Knowing what IS True and Right in Life, instead, which would obviously be Good for ones True Self, and all life.

So, while not using 'thoughts' to move about in Life, 'Knowing' is used instead. Knowing what IS True and Right, and then using that Knowledge to control how the body behaves, so that it, literally, moves in the Right and Good direction, while also increasing the Bliss feeling exponentially. This doing of what is KNOWN to be True, Right, and Good also produces the feelings of satisfaction and accomplishment, as the actual purpose to life and living is being achieved and fulfilled. Being in this thought free Awareness state of always KNOWING, instead of just always thinking, that what I am now doing is actually Creating a much better "world", or way of life, for Me and my children, that is; Everyone, then this is when feeling Truly satisfied, Truly happy, and Truly alive in and with Bliss.

When we are all continually doing our part to Create a much better "world" for Everyone, which is literally just 'us', ourselves, as One anyway, then this is when we feel Truly Blessed to be living on earth, as it is in Heaven. We will literally be Creating Heaven on earth for ourselves, and living as One, with God, our True Self.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:04 pm

Dimebag wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:15 pm I think at minimum, people would seriously benefit from becoming more mindful, or meta-aware, observing the contents of their minds as much as possible. Even if thought wasn’t eliminated completely. For many people, that isn’t an option, thought is necessary for their way of life, so unless the entire western world is going to be transformed into something completely different I think this is a good alternative that might fit more with the western way of life.

You know, a variation of what Roy suggests does work. When a man works, actually uses his body in labor, the mind tends to lean out, focus, get quiet. It's called engagement.

I can attest to this, yes, however, that work in my opinion needs to be engaging his/her problem solving abilities as well, and not be a repetitive task with no need for any creative or problem solving endeavours, otherwise the mind becomes disengaged and will wander. Essentially I am describing a challenge.

roydop wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:10 pm This is the most important thing you will (probably won't) ever do.

Sit in a quiet room without moving or thinking for one hour. Simply sit quietly in a chair and don't think. ...

What do you mean by "thinking" here?

The vast majority of people will not be able to stop their thoughts for longer than just a few seconds. ...

What do you mean by "thoughts" here?

Dimebag wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:51 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:04 pm

Dimebag wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:15 pm I think at minimum, people would seriously benefit from becoming more mindful, or meta-aware, observing the contents of their minds as much as possible. Even if thought wasn’t eliminated completely. For many people, that isn’t an option, thought is necessary for their way of life, so unless the entire western world is going to be transformed into something completely different I think this is a good alternative that might fit more with the western way of life.

You know, a variation of what Roy suggests does work. When a man works, actually uses his body in labor, the mind tends to lean out, focus, get quiet. It's called engagement.

I can attest to this, yes, however, that work in my opinion needs to be engaging his/her problem solving abilities as well, and not be a repetitive task with no need for any creative or problem solving endeavours, otherwise the mind becomes disengaged and will wander. Essentially I am describing a challenge.

Well, what engages one can be borin' as week old cow shit to another. For me: some repetitive tasks are quite involving. Splittin' wood, for example: once the rhythm is set, my head empties out, and I'm just a wood choppin' machine. It's very satisfying.

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:33 am

roydop wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:10 pm This is the most important thing you will (probably won't) ever do.

Sit in a quiet room without moving or thinking for one hour. Simply sit quietly in a chair and don't think. ...

What do you mean by "thinking" here?

The vast majority of people will not be able to stop their thoughts for longer than just a few seconds. ...

What do you mean by "thoughts" here?

The "voice in your head."

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:56 pm

Dimebag wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:51 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:04 pm

You know, a variation of what Roy suggests does work. When a man works, actually uses his body in labor, the mind tends to lean out, focus, get quiet. It's called engagement.

I can attest to this, yes, however, that work in my opinion needs to be engaging his/her problem solving abilities as well, and not be a repetitive task with no need for any creative or problem solving endeavours, otherwise the mind becomes disengaged and will wander. Essentially I am describing a challenge.

Well, what engages one can be borin' as week old cow shit to another. For me: some repetitive tasks are quite involving. Splittin' wood, for example: once the rhythm is set, my head empties out, and I'm just a wood choppin' machine. It's very satisfying.

I love harvesting wood.