Philosophy Now Forum

Zelebg wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:23 am That similarty is conceptual, the difference is ontological.

How do you know? You don't even have an ontology. Physics is still working on it.

So far it's Turtles all the way down (recursion in its own right - subject to the halting problem), and there's no good way of telling if that's an artefact of reality or artefact of our recursive minds examining reality. Perhaps even both.

Zelebg wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:23 am Let me try...

To be conscious is to have experience.
...

Umm no. Experience is just happening, 'no one' is really having it.

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:16 pm

Zelebg wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:23 am Let me try...

To be conscious is to have experience.
...

Umm no. Experience is just happening, 'no one' is really having it.

Quite right, Atla.

Perhaps Zelebg should have said that to be conscious is to have memories of experiences and access to those memories.

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:16 pm Umm no. Experience is just happening, 'no one' is really having it.

You and some camera are looking at a duck, and..

a. you experience seeing a duck, camera is not having any experience.
b. neitheir you nor camera are having any experience.
c. something else?

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:51 pm Perhaps Zelebg should have said that to be conscious is to have memories of experiences and access to those memories.

I'm saying the same thing as Wikipedia in its definition of sentience.

Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:12 pm So far it's Turtles all the way down (recursion in its own right - subject to the halting problem), and there's no good way of telling if that's an artefact of reality or artefact of our recursive minds examining reality. Perhaps even both.

I don't see why would I argue if your only point is that there is no point. Nothong new you can tell me then.

Zelebg wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:55 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:16 pm Umm no. Experience is just happening, 'no one' is really having it.

You and some camera are looking at a duck, and..

a. you experience seeing a duck, camera is not having any experience.
b. neitheir you nor camera are having any experience.
c. something else?

Of course: a.

Please clarify how you are using ‘experience’...

a. having an experience doesn’t mean owning &/or storing anything.
b. having an experience of something means experiencing the thing.
c. both a & b.
d. something else.

Zelebg wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:55 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:16 pm Umm no. Experience is just happening, 'no one' is really having it.

You and some camera are looking at a duck, and..

a. you experience seeing a duck, camera is not having any experience.
b. neitheir you nor camera are having any experience.
c. something else?

c, but then again I remembered that you understand nothing about the world beyond basic appearances

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:53 pm c, but then again I remembered that you understand nothing about the world beyond basic appearances

Why are you talking about me instead of to explain what do you mean to say by choosing "c. Something else"?

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:15 pm Please clarify how you are using ‘experience’...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/experience

b. having an experience of something means experiencing the thing.

Yes, what you are aware of in the present moment. That is primary meaning and standsrd usage in Philosopht of mind. I already pointed out to Wikipedia article about sentience where "experience" is the very definition of it, and at above link there are more examples of usage in that context.

Zelebg wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:09 pm I don't see why would I argue if your only point is that there is no point. Nothong new you can tell me then.

I didn't realise neomania was your mental illness. On a millennial time-scale novelty amongst humans is a rare thing.
Also, I didn't realise you were seeking to have an argument. I thought we are just having a conversation.

Try this: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hwqn9