Philosophy Now Forum

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:27 pm He is God of life and death. So He couldn't die unless He decides to die.

their are three Christian Theologies from the four Gospels.

of the three theologies only the Gospel of John equates Jesus as the same as God.


..............

so your inquary is bullshit without stating first it is via John's view of Jesus.

Age wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:57 pm

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pm The notion of Jesus dying in Christianity is seriously flawed because God cannot die and still be God and also there cannot be three Gods in one

Yes that misinterpretation is very flawed.

nope, not per theology of John's Gospel.

which is the mainstay of Christianity today.


according to Saul (Paul), Matt, Luke and Mark - it is of course, but that is not relivent since you refuse to see 3 theologies in the 4 gospels that survive and are valued by Christians today.

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:14 am

Age wrote:
Part of the reason why this may be clearer than christianity is because islam was written in earlier times

Christianity pre dates Islam although the [ King James ] Bible was written long after the Koran was
There is no single definitive version of the Bible that all Christians use but there is only one Koran

Judaism was written from 800-100 BC.

Christianity from 30-100 AD

Islam from 630-730 (parts of from Christian gnostic works of 200 AD)

-------------

amos is the oldest work in the OT as an original work (Genesis/Kings are older, based on even 4 cent older oral story) - but amos is the most accurate since it was based upon the autor of the time - 700 bc.

IMO.

gaffo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:57 pm

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pm The notion of Jesus dying in Christianity is seriously flawed because God cannot die and still be God and also there cannot be three Gods in one

Yes that misinterpretation is very flawed.

nope, not per theology of John's Gospel.

which is the mainstay of Christianity today.

I am NOT really concerned about what is or what is NOT the mainstay of ANY thing, especially in the days of when this is written.

Just because some thing is, so called, "mainstay" does NOT make it unflawed at all, obviously.

Also, are you suggesting that essentially God exists anyway?

gaffo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:49 amaccording to Saul (Paul), Matt, Luke and Mark - it is of course, but that is not relivent since you refuse to see 3 theologies in the 4 gospels that survive and are valued by Christians today.

I am NOT refusing ANY such thing.

Age wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:05 pm

gaffo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:57 pm

Yes that misinterpretation is very flawed.

nope, not per theology of John's Gospel.

which is the mainstay of Christianity today.

I am NOT really concerned about what is or what is NOT the mainstay of ANY thing, especially in the days of when this is written.

Just because some thing is, so called, "mainstay" does NOT make it unflawed at all, obviously.

Also, are you suggesting that essentially God exists anyway?

gaffo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:49 amaccording to Saul (Paul), Matt, Luke and Mark - it is of course, but that is not relivent since you refuse to see 3 theologies in the 4 gospels that survive and are valued by Christians today.

I am NOT refusing ANY such thing.

by you above post you ignore Historical evolution of Christianity, and that there are 3 christs in the 4 gospels.

i note these things, you do not, so i fear we have nothing to discuss per your Christ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78bsM7RbK0A

HexHammer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:05 pm It was a cheap trick, he hung there for less than a day when you least hang there for a week if not a month.

excarnation.

pretty ;-/.

Age wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:05 pm

Also, are you suggesting that essentially God exists anyway?

no, i'm an Athiest.

though have read and value both the OT and NT.

I note there are differing theologies in both the OT and NT.

as i said before about the NT.

3 Christs in the 4 gospels (ignoring the 5th Gospel of Peter - which affirms Matt/Like if interested).


I personally like Mark, where christ was just a man like me (born the usual way via sex by two mortals), and adopted as God's Son around the age of 30.

I like Mark not because of the above (just stating the above because that is that work's theology), but because "Jesus" in Gospel of Mark is the most Human, had fear of dying, did not know why his God forsake him at the final day/etc.

where John - my least favored - Christ is a Robot, with all the answers, no fear no humanity, just a walking orbot toward death for reasons he knows.

so i do not relate to that character.

Matt/Luke fall in-between Mark and John................though to be honest here, i do find Jesus as more human in them (enough human, though less than in Mark) than i do in John.

so i do like the Synoptics, though Mark the most of.

i disslike John, though note it is the "Champion of Christology" since the last 1800 yrs of christianity. i just cannot relate to a robot.

give me a man i can feel for instead (Mark),

2-cents.

The Four Gospels are very unreliable indeed and cannot be regarded as legitimate primary source material
The four authors did not actually know Jesus personally and all of their works were written after his death
Mark is anonymous and his Gospel is not really his since he uses the Gospel of Matthew as his major source

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pm The notion of Jesus dying in Christianity is seriously flawed because God cannot die and still be God and also there cannot be three Gods in one
And the status of Jesus as God is also a direct violation of the First Commandment that expressly forbids the worship of anyone other than God

Also if Jesus is God he cannot be human but apparently he is just as human as anyone else but without sin which is very confusing indeed
So when he was preaching for the last three years of his life was he merely human or was he actually God as he obviously cannot be both

Islam is so much clearer on this - Jesus did not die but instead ascended into Heaven
He was human but without sin because he was a prophet but he was never God and this is true of all the prophets in Islam

To worship Jesus as God in Islam would be considered blasphemy and a violation of the shahada which says that there is no God but Allah
This is the declaration all converts to Islam have to make so no Muslim worships Jesus the way that Christians do as it is absolutely haram

The shahada, like the Christian testimony of faith, is a necessarily false testimony contrary to the ten commandments, thus requires a construction of an imaginary graven image (ie. male-central-figure idol: Muhammad) in the psychology (i.e "heavens") of the "believer" which violates yet another. Both religions employ an idolatrous "mercy upon mankind" model. Muhammad is no less an idol than Jesus: that the former has blood routinely spilled over (ridicule of it) demonstrates its 'idol' status. Thus, Islam is just as idolatrous as Christianity if/when respecting (instead of perverting) the true sense of the world 'idol' as not being limited to mundane physical objects/statues.

In reality, the shahada is the Mark of the Beast as it draws a line directly from the being to the "model" of polygamy/pedophilia viz. 1:4 ratio of men/women which is egregiously contrary to the 'balanced' Edenic 1:1 model. This is in violation of yet another commandment regarding the honoring of the mother and father - Islam thus establishes a global precedent for state-sanctioned infidelity and pedophilia.



Islam is the root(s) of Nazism/Fascism/Socialism as the House of Islam projects all of their own crimes against humanity onto others esp. "Jews" (ie. they hide behind). This scapegoating nature is the same as the Mark of Cain: the accuser is the accused. This mark satisfies the House of Islam in its entirety: to invade other nations, drain all welfare and well-being resources, sow hatred/divisiveness viz. "believer vs. unbeliever" and blame it in everyone else. This was the "religion" of the Jews, and is the "religion" of Islam - thus there are only pre-Muhammadan Jews and post-Muhammadan Jews: what Moses was to Torah, Muhammad is to Qur'an - same "Jewish" worship of books and idols.

One of the very interesting thing about Prophet Muhammed(peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) in relation to the Jewish Bible is that he is praised and prophesied by NAME in the Jewish Bible. Here is a YouTube video which explains the matter in detail: https://youtu.be/wm3sZfPwv1g

For those who would need to investigate the matter further from Jewish sources itself, below are a couple of links to get started.
Here is a Jewish site where the Jewish Biblical text in Hebrew is juxtaposed with the English translation where the relevant verses are shown:  http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt3005.htm

And here is the link from the same Jewish site to an mp3 audio where a Rabbi is reciting these verses in Hebrew.  At the 2:32 to 2:42 timestamp of the audio,  the name Muhammadim can be clearly and unambiguously heard: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/mp3/t3005.mp3