Philosophy Now Forum

Anything multiplied by zero is zero since it cannot logically be anything else
As what other possible answer is there to infinity times zero other than zero

The fact that infinity is not a number is not relevant because the principle also applies to non numbers
There is not a single thing that does not give the answer zero when multiplied by zero for there is none

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:59 am Anything multiplied by zero is zero since it cannot logically be anything else
As what other possible answer is there to infinity times zero other than zero

The fact that infinity is not a number is not relevant because the principle also applies to non numbers
There is not a single thing that does not give the answer zero when multiplied by zero for there is none

But wtf believes it is not zero....I mean he said so, so it has to be true.

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:59 am Anything multiplied by zero is zero since it cannot logically be anything else
As what other possible answer is there to infinity times zero other than zero

The fact that infinity is not a number is not relevant because the principle also applies to non numbers
There is not a single thing that does not give the answer zero when multiplied by zero for there is none

Well, what's the length of a single point? It's zero, right? And in the unit interval we have infinitely many zero-length points. What's the total length of the unit interval? It's 1, right? How do you account for that with your idea that infinity times zero must be zero?

wtf wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:59 am

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:59 am Anything multiplied by zero is zero since it cannot logically be anything else
As what other possible answer is there to infinity times zero other than zero

The fact that infinity is not a number is not relevant because the principle also applies to non numbers
There is not a single thing that does not give the answer zero when multiplied by zero for there is none

Well, what's the length of a single point? It's zero, right? And in the unit interval we have infinitely many zero-length points. What's the total length of the unit interval? It's 1, right? How do you account for that with your idea that infinity times zero must be zero?

Explain this:

If you have infinitely zero length points, and the points are observed through a line, then you have infinite lines as result. To times 0 by infinity is to result in zero as infinity is a number through the line as composed of infinite lines. You cannot have infinite 0 point points without infinite lines. An infinite number of lines is a line.

Cut a line into two lines or three lines and it is still one line as a set of lines.

What the length of a line without recursively using a line? If you divide a line into infinite lines, then the line is not just 1 infinity, with each line being an infinity, it is also a set of lines.

To count any object and quantify it is to observe a set.

1 is a set.
1 is an infinite set.

The line a spatial phenomena, with all phenomena of physics being spatial forms, is one of the most basic proofs as to what a number is...numbers as quantities exist, defined and are proved by what they quantify.

This is empirical. It is proof.

A point has no length until it projects, the point as projective is a length through the line. To argue a line is composed of infinite points necessitates it as infinite lines as infinity times zero is 0.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:49 am A point has no length until it projects, the point as projective is a length through the line. To argue a line is composed of infinite points necessitates it as infinite lines as infinity times zero is 0.

You're talking shoes again.

wtf wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:20 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:49 am A point has no length until it projects, the point as projective is a length through the line. To argue a line is composed of infinite points necessitates it as infinite lines as infinity times zero is 0.

You're talking shoes again.

I said explain it.

A zero point always has a line "projecting" from it, as in the line is Directional.


No, I think you fail to realized a point and line are inseperable in measurement. You do not have one without the other. Why? Because a point is nothing. If you see one it is through a line. Even plotting the points on a map, where they are standalone units, still a fallacy as they are measured through a grid of lines and points.

Lines and points are inseperable. You cannot show a point, even in something such as ⊙, without line.



Raw Mass has no form empirically. It is unquantifiable and as such 0d.

It projects and takes form through volume. This beginning of form is quantifiable and as such xd.

As mass and volume intertwine, to form density, this is also quantifiable.


This empirically shows phenomenon.



Ball is in your court.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:57 pm
Ball is in your court.

My mathematical comments have not been directed to you.

wtf wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:59 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:57 pm
Ball is in your court.

My mathematical comments have not been directed to you.

Of course theh haven't...because you have no response.


The point is real simple, pardon the pun, a 0d point cannot be observed without a line, thus to say infinite 0d points is to say infinite lines.


This infinite set of lines is one line.


Strictly taking a line, and drawing a dot in the middle, then a dot in the middle again for each new line, then repeating this, leads...to the same line composed of infinite lines.








So I will repeat my point and tie this thread in with the double positives, as all my posts about loops....well they loop through eachother as well.

1. You cannot observe a 0d point without a line (or line segment if you want to get real precise). To say there are infinite 0d points is by default to say there are infinite 1d lines. This is considering again, to repeat, no 0d point can be observed without seeing a line.

2. As one point progressions to another point, it is through a line. The line is thus a projected point. Where the 0d point is formless, the 1d line is form.

3. The line is thus Directional by nature. As the point manifests to another point, so a line occurs.

4. This line as the projection of one point to another point, is in turn composed of further lines as each projection of the point is a new line. Thus we can the number line. 1 line then 2 lines then 3 lines etc.

5. Each of these lines, as a single entity in themselves, are composed of other lines as fractions/fractals. These fraction/fractal lines are lines in themselves and the process repeats.

6. Each line as composed of recursive lines, in turn observes that 1 line is composed of a set of lines. Each quantity of 1 is a set.

7. The negative numbers are strictly the antithetical element of the positive numbers. As all positive number line goes from left to right, so the negative number line is right to left.

8. As the positive number line progresses, so does the negative number line. As 1 goes to 2, -1 occurs as the difference when the negative number line is overlaid. Thus the manifestation of positives results in a negative. A difference of 1 occurs when a positive number line is over laid, thus the manifestations of positives also produces positives...but this does not negate that double positives produce a negative.

9. The manifestation of one line into another observes the one form is inverted to many forms through formlessness. The 0d point as formless Inverts one line in many. The 0d point as formless also Inverts itself into a line, as void is nothing hence voids itself as subject to a law of double negation.

10. And you cannot respond to any of this, because you can't.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:27 pm 10. And you cannot respond to any of this, because you can't.

I can't respond because it's incoherent nonsense.

I did respond to surreptitious57 who believes 0 times anything must be 0, be it 0 times infinity, 0 times fish, 0 times the Mormon Tabernacle choir.

I gave the counterexample that an infinity of 0-length points may have length 1, as in the unit interval.

wtf wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:29 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:27 pm 10. And you cannot respond to any of this, because you can't.

I can't respond because it's incoherent nonsense.

I did respond to surreptitious57 who believes 0 times anything must be 0, be it 0 times infinity, 0 times fish, 0 times the Mormon Tabernacle choir.

I gave the counterexample that an infinity of 0-length points may have length, as in the unit interval.

Actually your argument is nonsense, and the reason is really, really simple:

Show me a point that can be observed without a length between it an another point.

So say infinite 0d points, is to say infinite lines.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:37 pm

wtf wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:29 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:27 pm 10. And you cannot respond to any of this, because you can't.

I can't respond because it's incoherent nonsense.

I did respond to surreptitious57 who believes 0 times anything must be 0, be it 0 times infinity, 0 times fish, 0 times the Mormon Tabernacle choir.

I gave the counterexample that an infinity of 0-length points may have length, as in the unit interval.

Actually your argument is nonsense, and the reason is really, really simple:

Show me a point that can be observed without a length between it an another point.

So say infinite 0d points, is to say infinite lines.

And to build of this point:

1. There is no point that can be observed without referencing another point, thus a length.

2. As such a 0d line, while technically not existing observes that while a line may be composed of further lines as (pardon the "drawing" it is a line):

._._._._._._._. A


A line may also be composed of further lines from a relative vertical perspective

_________ A
_________
_________
_________



Where each line effectively is a "chord" of lines.


This would imply a line has width, but considering the width is effectively zero, this would be multiply x number of lines (4 in the above example) by zero.


Thus:

_____________A
_____________
_____________
_____________



Equals


._._._._._._._._._._._._.A



And the line becomes a basic empirical entity for the laws of superpositioning:

1. The line is composed of many lines horizontally.
2. The line is composed of many lines vertically.
3. The lines is composed of many lines horizontally and vertically.
4. The line observes that one state of superpositioning is superpostioning within another state of superpositioning. Thus superpostion is not only acts according to it's own nature but acts as a tensor.


Therefore:

1 ._._._._._._. 2 A
3 ._._._._._._. 4
5 ._._._._._._. 6
7 ._._._._._._. 8


And the line exists as a matrix of lines condensed into a 1 dimensional entity as

--------------> A


Each corner of this condense matrix is isomorphic to the other corner.

Corner 1 results in corner 8
Corner 2 results in corner 7
....so on and so further assuming the matrix is larger or smaller.

Thus this condensed matrix, under the form of 1d line, exists through a recursive spiral where the line as recursive lines effectively can be observed as a "screw" for lack of better terminology.

There is no quantity so great that when it is multiplied by zero the answer is not zero
Furthermore every single positive integer within infinity multiplied by zero equals zero
Also if infinity is treated as a single entity then it can be substituted for one and one times zero is zero
So that is three separate ways to demonstrate that infinity times zero is zero just like everything else is

The problem here is not with zero but with treating infinity as something unique when its just a placeholder and nothing else
The multiplication of anything postive by zero will always revert back to zero because it inversely negates the postive value
This is a universal law of mathematics which applies to infinity [ indeed to all infinities ] as much as it does to anything else

This is an entirely non controversial mathematical truth that is as easy as one plus one equals two so even a child could understand its simplicity

wtf wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:
Anything multiplied by zero is zero since it cannot logically be anything else
As what other possible answer is there to infinity times zero other than zero

The fact that infinity is not a number is not relevant because the principle also applies to non numbers
There is not a single thing that does not give the answer zero when multiplied by zero for there is none

Well whats the length of a single point ? Its zero right ? And in the unit interval we have infinitely many zero length points
Whats the total length of the unit interval ? Its I right ? How do you account for that with your idea that infinity times zero must be zero

You cannot get one from many zero length points simply because there is an infinite number of them
The number of points has absolutely no bearing on the answer whatsoever because it is ALWAYS zero

Zero times zero is zero and infinity times zero is zero because zero is a non positive / non negative integer [ the only one ]
This means that whatever is multiplied by zero [ postive integer / negative integer / rational number / irrational number / complex number /
cardinal number / ordinal number ] will ALWAYS give the same answer as there is no exception to this rule it is totally consistent and absolute

The only way to change this would be to re define zero as either a positive or negative integer which given its unique
position at the exact centre of the number line would be completely nonsensical and not to say equally as impractical

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:47 pm
ZERO TIMES ANYTHING IS ALWAYS ZERO - THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS TO THIS

Yeah the line is of zero width.

4 lines one top of eachother is equivalent to saying 4x0=0

You can have multiple lines of 0d width, superpositioned vertically (on top of eachother), and have 1 line composed of many lines.

Each line becomes a set or even matrix if you view each lines as composed of many lines horizontally as well.