Philosophy Now Forum

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:58 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:34 pmWhen you answer these two Honestly, then I will explain WHY what you wrote COULD BE actually 100% True and Right.

Je-sus you really think you having something over everyone else on the forum don't you.

YES, and NOT just the forum, if the Truth be KNOWN.

Is there any thing WRONG with that?

Crom is Crom.

'nuff said

God is simultaneously one and three. I appreciate meeting all those who have come to experience how this is possible.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:38 pm God is simultaneously one and three. I appreciate meeting all those who have come to experience how this is possible.

Only a triune God is self-existent.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:36 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:38 pm God is simultaneously one and three. I appreciate meeting all those who have come to experience how this is possible.

Only a triune God is self-existent.

I personally do not get this. What do you mean by "self-existent"? That it is a necessary being?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:36 pm Only a triune God is self-existent.

Spoken as if you understand the physics behind the nature of reality...leaving ALL physicists behind in the puzzle.

Do you know God exists, or are you floating on that cloud of faith?

If you KNOW God exists, please provide 5 attributes that you have reasonably confirmed about God's nature.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:01 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:36 pm Only a triune God is self-existent.

Spoken as if you understand the physics behind the nature of reality...leaving ALL physicists behind in the puzzle.

Physics? I didn't even mention physics. I have no idea where you're getting that. I'm talking metaphysics....and logic.

Do you know God exists, or are you floating on that cloud of faith?

Old question. You know the answer.

There are some people who claim that God exists. I'd be among them. There are some who insist He doesn't...that He's a "delusion," as Richard Dawkins would have it. Those who believe in God often say they see good evidence for Him. They cite many and various philosophical and empirical arguments. The other side claims none of those are to count.

All have some faith in their position, since nobody has access to all the possible data. Someone who did would not simply KNOW God...he would also have to BE God. So some faith is necessary, to both sides; but also, it ought to be faith premised on good evidence, whichever side one is on.

And there we are.

If you KNOW God exists, please provide 5 attributes that you have reasonably confirmed about God's nature.

What will you accept as, to use your words, "reasonable confirmation"?

If nothing is "reasonable confirmation," then the task is hopeless...not because it's intrinsically so, but because the recipient will not accept anything as evidence. If something is "reasonable confirmation," and if you'll accept it, I'll provide something.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:25 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:01 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:36 pm Only a triune God is self-existent.

Spoken as if you understand the physics behind the nature of reality...leaving ALL physicists behind in the puzzle.

Physics? I didn't even mention physics. I have no idea where you're getting that. I'm talking metaphysics....and logic.

You stated something (God) IS self-existent - because it is 'triune'. To me, that implies you have a comprehension of this entity via physics - beyond a philosophical comprehension of it.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:25 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:01 pmIf you KNOW God exists, please provide 5 attributes that you have reasonably confirmed about God's nature.

What will you accept as, to use your words, "reasonable confirmation"?

If nothing is "reasonable confirmation," then the task is hopeless...not because it's intrinsically so, but because the recipient will not accept anything as evidence. If something is "reasonable confirmation," and if you'll accept it, I'll provide something.

I'm not asking for evidence, simply the attributes you have confirmed for yourself regarding this entity, God. 5 please

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:36 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:38 pm God is simultaneously one and three. I appreciate meeting all those who have come to experience how this is possible.

Only a triune God is self-existent.

You mention metaphysics but deny it by remaining closed to the idea that God is simultaneously one and three. Yet there are those who are aware that God as ONE doesn't exist: God IS. God is unity. The Triune God exists and initiates the process of existence acknowledged by the light. The process of existence takes place within ONE at a lower level of reality. In ancient times those who understood this were open to Platonic Christianity and what was introduced by Plotinus. But as Christianity devolved into Christendom, vertical reasoning and its third dimension of thought was rejected in favor of dualistic social progress and dogmatic beliefs

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:38 pm You stated something (God) IS self-existent - because it is 'triune'. To me, that implies you have a comprehension of this entity via physics - beyond a philosophical comprehension of it.

I was speaking logically. I was speaking of the problem identified by Eastern thinkers, with the idea of singular monotheism.

Hinduism, for example, believes in the co-eternal necessity of the physical world, plus the divine entity. Neither is dispensable, because the absence of one would create an eternal singularness, with no distinction. There would be an "I" with no "Thou," which means there would also be no "I," because all would be "I" -- thus it would be impossible to speak of anything existing.

However, the idea of an eternal physical world is observably, empirically untrue. The Second Law of Thermodynamics conclusively demonstrates this. So does the Red Shift effect. So does everyday observation, as we can see that our universe is not accumulating order, but losing it; and that the parameters a matter-preserving (let alone a life-preserving) universe are exceedingly narrow. So we know the physical world is contingent and temporary, not necessary and eternal. The Eastern mystics are simply wrong about that. But we can't blame them: they didn't have science, and they didn't know.

What did seem obvious to them, and what they were smart enough to figure out, was that if the universe were made of all-one-thing then nothing would "exist." Nothing would be distinguishable from any other thing, and nothing would have boundaries, borders, substance or identity. So they invented this explanation: the world is maya, illusion. The transcendent divine is ultimate reality. But maya and the eternal transcendent must co-exist forever, or both are eliminated.

If God were merely "one," then, God would not exist. Nothing else would either. All would be an indistinguishable mass.

But what if God had, inherent to His nature, the "I" and the "Thou"? The "this" and the "that." And both without necessity of a "world." Then God could eternally exist, and the world would be a merely contingent entity.

And that is exactly what we observe. We live in a contingent, temporary universe. What's more, we lack a reasonable explanation for the existence of this universe, and know of no Cause sufficient to have produced it -- except God.

Thus, multiplicity, or triunity, we should say, is an inherent feature of God -- because God alone is eternally self-existent.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:25 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:01 pmIf you KNOW God exists, please provide 5 attributes that you have reasonably confirmed about God's nature.

What will you accept as, to use your words, "reasonable confirmation"?

If nothing is "reasonable confirmation," then the task is hopeless...not because it's intrinsically so, but because the recipient will not accept anything as evidence. If something is "reasonable confirmation," and if you'll accept it, I'll provide something.

I'm not asking for evidence, simply the attributes you have confirmed for yourself regarding this entity, God. 5 please

Well, I have already pointed to paternity and triunity. And I have explained my basis for belief in both, if you've been reading this message and the ones before. Are you accepting those, to begin with? Or would you insist that you want some further proof of those?

If you are not yet convinced, then what "proof" would you accept? Let's say, jus for those two...

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:13 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:36 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:38 pm God is simultaneously one and three. I appreciate meeting all those who have come to experience how this is possible.

Only a triune God is self-existent.

You mention metaphysics but deny it by remaining closed to the idea that God is simultaneously one and three.

Not "close to." Dead on, as a matter of fact.

Yet there are those who are aware that God as ONE doesn't exist:

See my comments the message above, to atto.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:27 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:13 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:36 pm
Only a triune God is self-existent.

You mention metaphysics but deny it by remaining closed to the idea that God is simultaneously one and three.

Not "close to." Dead on, as a matter of fact.

Yet there are those who are aware that God as ONE doesn't exist:

See my comments the message above, to atto.

You seem to believe that there is something deep and important about denying the difference between isness and existence. To each his own.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:41 pm You seem to believe that there is something deep and important about denying the difference between isness and existence. To each his own.

I said no such thing.

But you seem to be bursting with desire to tell me about it, because you brought it in from nowhere...Go ahead.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:49 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:41 pm You seem to believe that there is something deep and important about denying the difference between isness and existence. To each his own.

I said no such thing.

But you seem to be bursting with desire to tell me about it, because you brought it in from nowhere...Go ahead.

I tried to explain it on a previous post but you rejected it then so will again

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:36 pm
Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:38 pm
God is simultaneously one and three. I appreciate meeting all those who have come to experience how this is possible.
Only a triune God is self-existent.

You mention metaphysics but deny it by remaining closed to the idea that God is simultaneously one and three. Yet there are those who are aware that God as ONE doesn't exist: God IS. God is unity. The Triune God exists and initiates the process of existence acknowledged by the light. The process of existence takes place within ONE at a lower level of reality. In ancient times those who understood this were open to Platonic Christianity and what was introduced by Plotinus. But as Christianity devolved into Christendom, vertical reasoning and its third dimension of thought was rejected in favor of dualistic social progress and dogmatic beliefs

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:09 pm I tried to explain it on a previous post but you rejected it then so will again

I didn't "reject" it. I made no comment on it at all.