Philosophy Now Forum

Dachshund wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm In what sense are you using the word 'great'? It's difficult to tell with yanks because they are always messing around with word meanings and butchering the English language. Is it as in 'have a 'great' day'? Or as a single-word exclamation: 'Great!'? Or what about 'great prices', which apparently means 'small' prices (notwithstanding the fact that 'great' means something substantial and, well, large ) because it's used in a positive way when talking about the price of goods and people generally prefer small prices over big ones....

Erm Vegetable, I hate to tell you this, but KIWIs (like YOU) do not exactly speak "Received English".

If anyone mangles Modern English it is the KIWIs...

"Gis a cin o' puss from the chilly box, bro. Chur."

Trans: "Please pass me a can of beer from the cooler, my friend. Thank you,"

Ha, Ha,Ha ! What backward lot of rude hillbillies , you all are Veggie !

Regards


Dachshund (Der Uberweiner)

Sad little man. Doesn't understand the differences between language forms. Americans created their own dictionary for the specific purpose of destroying the English language. It's what passes as mainstream over there--used in both formal and informal writing and speaking. Is there no limit to the depth of your stupidity and lack of education? Your stupidisms just keep coming.
Of course every country has its own informal, colloquial way of speaking.
And yes, those Kiwi provincial hicks do have a dreadful accent--quite similar to backwoods South Africans.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:24 pm Sculptor

The phrase "one nation under god", sounds more like Islam, and is in direct contradiction with any idea approximating a "Free People".

Freedom requires the mutual acceptance of voluntary obligations. It is impossible without the religious influence. Without it we are left with lawful obligations determined by government and the belief that statist slavery is better than freedom. Then people have to learn the hard way.

There is plenty of religious influence in Islamic countries whose citizens are bound to the lawful obligations as determined by government. So what happened to their freedom where religious influence is used to force conformity?

In Iran most of its population, especially among the young, prefer a more secular society but "Secular" has always been a dirty word with you. Most of the educated would love to message their Mullah's to fuck off with their religious influence which sets the Mullah's free but virtually enslaves the population.

You still haven't got a clue. No analysis whatsoever!

Bottom line: It's not up to the state to be religious; whether to be or not to be is a personal choice of no concern to the state.

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:31 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:24 pm Sculptor

The phrase "one nation under god", sounds more like Islam, and is in direct contradiction with any idea approximating a "Free People".

Freedom requires the mutual acceptance of voluntary obligations. It is impossible without the religious influence. Without it we are left with lawful obligations determined by government and the belief that statist slavery is better than freedom. Then people have to learn the hard way.

There is plenty of religious influence in Islamic countries whose citizens are bound to the lawful obligations as determined by government. So what happened to their freedom where religious influence is used to force conformity?

In Iran most of its population, especially among the young, prefer a more secular society but "Secular" has always been a dirty word with you. Most of the educated would love to message their Mullah's to fuck off with their religious influence which sets the Mullah's free but virtually enslaves the population.

You still haven't got a clue. No analysis whatsoever!

Bottom line: It's not up to the state to be religious; whether to be or not to be is a personal choice of no concern to the state.

This thread examines why America can no longer be great. It can no longer be great since it is rejecting what is necessary for it to be good. The secular influence tells a person what to do. The religious influence as intended in America enables a person to “feel “ what it means to be good in order to become great.

As a secularist you prefer to be told what it means to be good and obey what your government demands. The religious influence as intended in America based on the Judeo-Christian influence enables a person to “feel” why being good is more advantageous for human being including the ability to be free.

Thou shalt not steal is the seventh commandment and its inner meaning refers to what you are. Your government commands you not to steal or you will go to jail unless you are special. The government of course is special

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville

He is describing PC stealing which must be celebrated by all welcoming and supporting secular statist slavery. The government doesn’t steal. It just redistibutes your money for your own good,

Bottom line: It's not up to the state to be religious; whether to be or not to be is a personal choice of no concern to the state.

Yes the secular state must reign supreme and you anxiously await the time when you will join hands with the great multitudes eager to follow its dictates.

These increasingly supported attitudes assure that America, a country that values freedom as an ideal, can never be great again. It has been sold for thirty pieces of silver.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:49 amAs a secularist you prefer to be told what it means to be good and obey what your government demands.

The point I made was the very opposite of this - learn how to read or don't write!

It's the secular states which have the greatest freedom and (note well) it's because of this that they also have the greatest disagreements and divisions. It's the religious states who expect you to obey and conform and do as that government demands, or else! Societally they remain stagnant hardly moving at all ruled by their ancient theisms and customs forcing compliance.

BTW what happened to your hero president. Wasn't he supposed to make America great again and now you're complaining that it ain't possible?

The secular is far from perfect or even close to but how come in this day and age those ruled under a religious mandate always aspire to become more secular?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:49 amYes the secular state must reign supreme and you anxiously await the time when you will join hands with the great multitudes eager to follow its dictates.

You never cease to write stupid loads of shit. A thinker, a philosopher you surely ain't!

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:47 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:07 am I believe the US will gradually declined as its competitive edge will erode due to the other nations catching up.

One of the reason its the rising of its minimal wage to $15.00 an hour.
Just imagine if a worker worked 8 hours that would be $120.00 a day.

Pretending that this is a problem shows a woeful ignorance of basic economics.

Note first you have to consider human nature and psychology before economics.
Consider the Maslow's Hierarchy at the lower levels, i.e. there is a natural impulse for incremental rewards to push the same level of motivation.
This is the drive for the higher minimum wage but the US has accelerated it too fast.

Even then, demand for wage rise will naturally be continually be expected and this will have an impact on the cost of labor, thus price of goods and the ability of the US to export more competitively.

The US was very great within the past 50 years due to its exceptional competitive advantage from various factors but this competitive advantage is eroding day by day which is something natural to human beings.

Note once Britain was very great, then great and now merely ordinary in relation to many other developing countries or a good example China.
The US will naturally fall into this sort of trend which is very natural.
As such, the US will never be great again like how it was in the past.

Dubious

Your trouble is that though you accept differing degrees of intellectual quality, you are unaware of differing degrees of emotional quality and even what it means. It is no wonder then why you must reject the religious influence since it is considered all the same.

Science reveals facts and as we know we can acquire more facts and strive to integrate them into better understanding the reality of our world.

However it is not the same with our emotional quality. It remains the same unless acted upon by higher influences

1948
"One never goes wrong following his feeling. I don’t mean emotions, I mean feeling, for feeling and intuition are one.” Albert Einstein, in Einstein and the Poet – In Search of the Cosmic Man by William Hermanns (Branden Press, 1983, p. 95. – conversation on September 14, 1948)

1954
“We will be destroyed unless we create a cosmic conscience. And we have to begin to do that on an individual level, with the youth that are the politicians of tomorrow…. But no one, and certainly no state, can take over the responsibility that the individual has to his conscience.” Albert Einstein, in Einstein and the Poet – In Search of the Cosmic Man by William Hermanns (Branden Press, 1983, p. 141. Conversation in Summer of 1954)

Seculrism closes the opening to the feelings that can result in objective conscience. Where secular science needs quality facts, objective conscience needs the experience of objective value and what brings meaning to the world and our existence. People who have had this experience know the value of freedom. The majority who don’t will accept statist slavery for pragmatic gains and the destruction it must bring.

The essence of religion, its source of quality, is like the pole star for our psych. It awakens us to the higher quality of conscience the world rejects since it threatens its need for power and prestige.

America cannot be great again until it accepts the intent of the spiritual influence which served its foundings. I don’t see how it can happen. Only relative few for example are open to Einstein’s ideas on conscience.

"Create a community which develops the highest of man's qualities based on conscience. You must warn people not to make their in¬tellect their god. The intellect knows methods but it seldom knows values, and they come from feeling. If one doesn't play a part in the creative whole, he is not worth being called human. He has betrayed his true purpose." Albert Einstein, in Einstein and the Poet – In Search of the Cosmic Man by William Hermanns (Branden Press, 1983, p. 135.)

I don’t see how America can survive this growing imbalance between science and religion so I have to conclude that America can never be great again. It has lost its capacity to “feel” conscience. Without it society will never adopt voluntary obligations assuring the loss of freedom.

We have betrayed our true purpose. The secular world welcomes it as progress.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:14 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:47 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:07 am I believe the US will gradually declined as its competitive edge will erode due to the other nations catching up.

One of the reason its the rising of its minimal wage to $15.00 an hour.
Just imagine if a worker worked 8 hours that would be $120.00 a day.

Pretending that this is a problem shows a woeful ignorance of basic economics.

Note first you have to consider human nature and psychology before economics.
Consider the Maslow's Hierarchy at the lower levels, i.e. there is a natural impulse for incremental rewards to push the same level of motivation.
This is the drive for the higher minimum wage but the US has accelerated it too fast.

Wrong. The greater the minimum wage the greater the demand the better the economy.
A higher minimum wage has always been attacked by the rich. They have always said that it will lead to economic decline and unemployment. Yet with each increase the economies that have imposed minimum wage laws have always shown growth.
It also leads to a reduction in inequality.
And THAT is why we have a myth that minimum wage is harmful - because the rich have to get less.
During the last ten years of austerity the number of billionaires has increased three fold, at the same time as a massive surge in homelessness, and destitution.
Think it over.

China.
.

China is way down the list of richest countries per capita as the majority live as peasants. The worst thing that could happen to the US and the UK is for us to emulate them.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:49 amAs a secularist you prefer to be told what it means to be good and obey what your government demands.

Again for the 3rd fucking time it's as a theist that you prefer to be told what it means to be good and and obey what your government demands or whatever your gurus say without giving it a second thought.

Why is it that theists are such loathsome liars? One time I wouldn't have said so, but to me they're the most disgusting type of human there is. All they ever managed to do is lie and distort.

Also I would like to have asked Herr Einstein, Mr. Genius, his definition of cosmic consciousness - since its easy enough for anyone to throw words around - and if it isn't better to first have an Earth consciousness before applying for a cosmic one.

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:37 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:49 amAs a secularist you prefer to be told what it means to be good and obey what your government demands.

Again for the 3rd fucking time it's as a theist that you prefer to be told what it means to be good and and obey what your government demands or whatever your gurus say without giving it a second thought.

Why is it that theists are such loathsome liars? One time I wouldn't have said so, but to me they're the most disgusting type of human there is. All they ever managed to do is lie and distort.

Also I would like to have asked Herr Einstein, Mr. Genius, his definition of cosmic consciousness - since its easy enough for anyone to throw words around - and if it isn't better to first have an Earth consciousness before applying for a cosmic one.

It is surprising to me that an indoctrinated atom of the Great Beast like yourself somehow believes he has free will and is able to judge others. Of course the Great Beast smiles its approval of your gullibility. That is why people can be so quick to sacrifice freedom for obvious lies

“The secret of the demagogue is to make himself as stupid as his audience so they believe they are clever as he.”― Karl Kraus

It is at least partial compensation that some people get it.

Dubious to Nick wrote: Why is it that theists are such loathsome liars?

I keep wondering the same thing (about some theists). Is it because their mindset is based on a level of fantasy that they must continually craft without ever realizing their ego's involvement in making themselves a god of their own fanciful distortions?

Dubious to Nick wrote: One time I wouldn't have said so, but to me they're the most disgusting type of human there is.

I now think so too. It's as if they're a festering product of the darkest depths of theism, serving to personify that which they claim to be righteously against, in order to actually create/fulfill what is needed to unfold the epic story they are so identified with. Somebody has to play the part (even if unconsciously)...and NON-theists have no interest in such a script.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:24 pm

Dubious to Nick wrote: Why is it that theists are such loathsome liars?

I keep wondering the same thing (about some theists). Is it because their mindset is based on a level of fantasy that they must continually craft without ever realizing their ego's involvement in making themselves a god of their own fanciful distortions?

Dubious to Nick wrote: One time I wouldn't have said so, but to me they're the most disgusting type of human there is.

I now think so too. It's as if they're a festering product of the darkest depths of theism, serving to personify that which they claim to be righteously against, in order to actually create/fulfill what is needed to unfold the epic story they are so identified with. Somebody has to play the part (even if unconsciously)...and NON-theists have no interest in such a script.

Theism asserts the dubious position that Faith trumps reason. In fact the more absurd the religious claim that is believed, the more faith is seen as an achievement.
In such a atmosphere, belief is seen as something you just take off a smorgasbord, rather than something that can be established as knowledge through the rigorous use of reason and evidence.
In such an atmosphere cherry picking the facts, and simply asserting an idea that seems pleasing trumps cold hard truth.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:06 pm That is why people can be so quick to sacrifice freedom for obvious lies

Thank you for succinctly stating the precise reason why theism with its total mastery of subterfuge is to be avoided at all cost!

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:39 pm Theism asserts the dubious position that Faith trumps reason. In fact the more absurd the religious claim that is believed, the more faith is seen as an achievement.

Insightful and well stated! The extent of self-fulfilling and self-rewarding creations from the human power of imagination is fascinating to behold.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:56 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:39 pm Theism asserts the dubious position that Faith trumps reason. In fact the more absurd the religious claim that is believed, the more faith is seen as an achievement.

Insightful and well stated! The extent of self-fulfilling and self-rewarding creations from the human power of imagination is fascinating to behold.

Fascinating and devastating.
The future is desolation.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:39 pmTheism asserts the dubious position that Faith trumps reason. In fact the more absurd the religious claim that is believed, the more faith is seen as an achievement.

Faith is justified under the maxim of Credo Quia Absurdum. It admits to the fact that reason is not essential in its interpretation of defining something as true. This saying comes across as extremely honest purposely incorporating the absurd as a principle of belief. In that sense faith actually is an achievement if that which it is based on is acknowledged. This is an altogether different kind of theism than that practiced by all the religious dolts who, for sake of argument, keep asking for proof whenever they feel it's appropriate.

If faith abides by the principle of CQA then there's nothing to be said against it and nothing to be said for it by either atheists or theists. It simply is what it is.