Philosophy Now Forum

Age wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:40 am Does the question "Is this the same rose?" really have much to do with the question "Is this the same file of A rose?" The two answers could be completely opposite of each other.

Ask Aristotle

for all X: X = X => True

Is it the same "X" ? Is it the same form as an "X" ?

for ALL X, X: X = X => False

0.99999999999999... = 1

Logik wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:39 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:40 am Does the question "Is this the same rose?" really have much to do with the question "Is this the same file of A rose?" The two answers could be completely opposite of each other.

Ask Aristotle

for all X: X = X => True

Is it the same "X" ? Is it the same form as an "X" ?

for ALL X, X: X = X => False

0.99999999999999... = 1

Who/what is "aristotle" and what exactly do you want me to ask "aristotle", if ever I come in contact with them/it?

I was just pointing out that you wrote "Is this the same rose?" when what you were actually talking about was an image of a rose.

By the way if you have two different X's, then they are not the same.

Age wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:16 am By the way if you have two different X's, then they are not the same.

OK, do I have two different Xs?

X = Х

If the "X's" are the same then the above is true.
If the "X's" are different then the above is false.

Which one is it? True or false?

Logik wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:16 am By the way if you have two different X's, then they are not the same.

OK, do I have two different Xs?

X = Х

If the "X's" are the same then the above is true.
If the "X's" are different then the above is false.

Which one is it? True or false?

Obviously the X's are different. Can you NOT see that?

Age wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:53 am

Logik wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:16 am By the way if you have two different X's, then they are not the same.

OK, do I have two different Xs?

X = Х

If the "X's" are the same then the above is true.
If the "X's" are different then the above is false.

Which one is it? True or false?

Obviously the X's are different. Can you NOT see that?

So X = X is false ?

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:26 am
AX = AX [ TRUE ]
BX = BX [ TRUE ]
AX = BX [ FALSE ]
BX = AX [ FALSE ]

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=26239&p=398488#p398488

We could bypass that simply by comparing the two photographs to see whether or not they are the same
As you dont need a computer programme / mathematical algorithm for something you can physically see

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:54 am We could bypass that simply by comparing the two photographs to see whether or not they are the same

That is exactly what you did, isn't it? You compared the two photographs and you concluded that they are the same.

Look again maybe?

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:54 am As you dont need a computer programme / mathematical algorithm for something you can physically see

You are partially right. What you need is an ACCURATE MEASUREMENT.
Just like you can' determine if something weighs 100 grams of 99 grams by only using your hands, so you need a scale.
Your hands are not sensitive enough, but the scale is.

Your eyes are not sensitive enough for this either. Your eyes can only recognize about 10 million colors.

I changed one pixel (out of 250000 ) by one shade of red (1 in 32 000 000).

This is literally beyond the capability of your eyeball. You can keep looking, but without an "accurate scale" - you aren't going to get anywhere.

I dont need to know any of that because I could just say they are different by simple virtue of there being two of them
No copy of anything is ABSOLUTELY identical to the original in EVERY single way no matter how identical they might be
And I arrived at this entirely logical conclusion without consulting any computer programme / mathematical algorithm

Logik wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:53 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:53 am

Logik wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:49 am
OK, do I have two different Xs?

X = Х

If the "X's" are the same then the above is true.
If the "X's" are different then the above is false.

Which one is it? True or false?

Obviously the X's are different. Can you NOT see that?

So X = X is false ?

No.

Age wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:18 am

Logik wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:53 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:53 am

Obviously the X's are different. Can you NOT see that?

So X = X is false ?

No.

So X = Х is True?

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:06 am I dont need to know any of that because I could just say they are different by simple virtue of there being two of them
No copy of anything is ABSOLUTELY identical to the original in EVERY single way no matter how identical they might be
And I arrived at this entirely logical conclusion without consulting any computer programme / mathematical algorithm

You lost track of something!

There are three things.

There is the rose: A
There is the photo of the rose: roseA.jpg (B)
There is another photo of the rose: roseB.jpg (C)

Is B = C? Was B taken at the EXACT SAME TIME as C ?

Logik wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:18 am

Logik wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:53 am
So X = X is false ?

No.

So X = Х is True?

Not necessarily so.

Age wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:57 am

Logik wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:18 am

No.

So X = Х is True?

Not necessarily so.

So if X = X is neither true nor false, what is it then?

Give us a word.