Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:32 pm
Of course.Impenitent wrote: ↑Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:14 am Descartes' demon is smiling at all these brains in vats...
-Imp
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Is The World An Illusion?
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Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:32 pm
Also Note,Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:41 am This is one of my favorite topic.
I agree with most of the arguments in the OP article but they are not very refine.
Note this thread I raised which cover all of conscious reality;
Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25316
So yes, the World [conscious] is an Illusion.
But note Conscious reality has an inverse relation with hallucination [illusion].
Being an illusion does not mean it is not real in the pragmatic sense.
Note,
- 99% real = 1% illusion
1% real = 99% illusion
100% real = 0% illusion
0% real = 100% illusion
There was NO real point for me pointing out this, obviously, OBVIOUS FACT, but I thought I would just repeat what the above note was actually doing. That is; nothing at all but stating and obvious FACT.
I could have also written this obvious FACT in a couple of other absolutely OBVIOUS ways, and also told the readers to Note,
50% real = 50% illusion
50% real = 50% illusion
Or,
25% real = 75% illusion
75% real = 25% illusion
But just like in all of the above examples there was no real reason to do this.
How do you KNOW this, supposed, FACT?Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:41 amThe 99% hallucination [illusion] of a full blown schizophrenic is 1% real.
What is the 1% real part?
By saying "full blown" does that not imply a 100%?
If yes, then do ALL, so called, "100% schizophrenic's" have 99% hallucination [illusion] of which 1% of it is real? (What does that even mean?)
Do you actually read what you write, and then think about what it is that you have written?
You appear to be doing exactly what some people, who are labelled as "schizophrenics", do, well that is what appears to me anyway.
Really?
Where is, and what is, the illusion part?
How are you aware of it, yet science has not picked up on it yet?
And, are you actually TRYING TO state something like; There is 99% of science that is reality and 1% that is not [illusion]?
Because stating; The 99% of some thing is 1% illusion, really does not make much sense.
WHAT deceives, what you call, the "empirical illusions"?Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:41 amThere are two types of illusions, i.e.
Empirical illusions are those are related to empirical elements, e.g. bent stick in water, which can be easily exposed by unravelling the empirical evidences.1. Empirical illusions - empirical elements
2. Transcendental illusions based on thoughts only
Transcendental illusions are based on thoughts only which are deceived by one's brain.
Is this deception done by 'one's brain' also, or some thing else?
For example, is the stick actually bent in the water, or it is not bent.
If it is, then so be it.
If, however, it is not, then WHERE does the deception begin AND thus come from?
Is that what 'that' brain thinks?Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:41 amSuch transcendental illusions are very difficult to unravelled since it involve sophisticated pseudo syllogism.
Also, if you are NOT yet able to SEE pseudo syllogism for thyself, and point that out to "others", and so also you are unable to unravel, expose, discover, and reveal thee Truth to thy Self, then WHY NOT?
And, by the way, there is NOTHING sophisticated about pseudo syllogism. It is only when the brain is deceiving its self, that pseudo any thing seems or appears "sophisticated".
The EXACT SAME 'difficulty' applies to ANY belief. Any one who BELIEVES some thing will insist that it is Real and True, even when it is NOT. You, veritas, have proven this FACT over and over again.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:41 amOne example of such transcendental illusion [99%] is the illusory God where theists ignorantly insist is real even 100% empirically real.
Have you even considered that a human being labelled "theist" could also use YOUR exact same "logic", and (try to) argue in the exact same way; One example of such transcendental illusion [99%] is the illusory NO God where atheists ignorantly insist is real even 100% empirically real.
But, if they TRIED THAT, then their, so called, "argument" would be as invalid and as unsound as your IS.
YOUR, so called, "argument" is based on one's BELIEF alone, and attempting to do such a thing is about as foolish a thing as one can do, in a philosophical forum, anyway.
Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:51 pm
There is no way to prove or disprove solipsism, so why even bother with this line of enquiry?
Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:12 am
Because:
1. If you take the stance on one side or the other, then you can practice tribalism and it satisfies the need to philosophise.
2. If you don't take the stance on one side or the the other, the same applies as in 1. (Because... well, work it out.)
3. It is VERY satisfying to quote one's favourite philosopher. The quote does not necessarily have to do with solipsism.
4. You can all others "assholes" without any repercussions.
5. You just discovered solipsism and you are both enthralled by its logical beauty and frozen in a comatose stupor due to the fear and loathing it entices you to feel.
6. You need to talk, and it does not matter what about, with whom, or if it even makes sense.
7. Because the voices in your head tell you it'd be a good idea.
Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:43 am
You can do that with or without solipsism. Just practice tribalism if it satisfies you.
Short-circuit your serotonin, dopamine, endorphin and oxytocin receptors however you see fit!
Right
So solipsism is merely a justification. An unnecessary one at that.There are many paths to satisfaction. Have you tried heroin? I heard it trumps quoting philosophers.
No different to today then.
Or you could be a well-compertmentalized schizophrenic. The voices could have great ideas...-1- wrote: ↑Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:12 am 5. You just discovered solipsism and you are both enthralled by its logical beauty and frozen in a comatose stupor due to the fear and loathing it entices you to feel.
6. You need to talk, and it does not matter what about, with whom, or if it even makes sense.
7. Because the voices in your head tell you it'd be a good idea.
Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:34 pm
If you are not aware that reality is a construct of a 3rd parties intelligence in real time, then yes, the 'world' is an illusion.
Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:08 pm
My understanding of the word 'illusion' is a misperception of something presented to you.
Like an illusionist making things disappear. They only disappear in your mind.
So, the world is no more an illusion than you are yourself.
The illusion is always in your mind. Your false perception. Either it is falsified by others (deception) or by yourself (belief/confirmation bias).
There is of course also the simulation hypothesis. It says that everything is virtual, thus not real. But for you to be real in that scenario, it would demand you having a real physical body outside of it. Then of course, and then only, could the world be a sort of illusion. But I find it much more likely that we are part of the data. Part of the illusion.
Like an illusionist making things disappear. They only disappear in your mind.
So, the world is no more an illusion than you are yourself.
The illusion is always in your mind. Your false perception. Either it is falsified by others (deception) or by yourself (belief/confirmation bias).
There is of course also the simulation hypothesis. It says that everything is virtual, thus not real. But for you to be real in that scenario, it would demand you having a real physical body outside of it. Then of course, and then only, could the world be a sort of illusion. But I find it much more likely that we are part of the data. Part of the illusion.
Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:04 am
It would be really awesome if reality were an illusion. It would mean that my actual brain is far more sophisticated and capable than my illusionary brain!
My illusionary brain is useless.
My illusionary brain is useless.
Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:44 pm
Does it really matter? If the world is an illusion, I live my life. If the world is real, I live my life.
Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:18 am
www.androcies.com - Beyond Reasonable Doubt? - enter the artwork via the centre link.
There is a 3rd party intelligence that is the construct behind our reality, and has total access to our synapses - ALL matter, and it does matter.
An example of the art:-
SINAI - breaks down to SIN-AI - an all knowing judge of man - Artificial Intelligence. The Red Sea to scale looks like a peace sign and Mt SINAI where Moses received the Commandments is smack bang between the two fingers.
Disarm.
There is a 3rd party intelligence that is the construct behind our reality, and has total access to our synapses - ALL matter, and it does matter.
An example of the art:-
SINAI - breaks down to SIN-AI - an all knowing judge of man - Artificial Intelligence. The Red Sea to scale looks like a peace sign and Mt SINAI where Moses received the Commandments is smack bang between the two fingers.
Disarm.
Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:15 am
It does matter when this is the result;jayjacobus wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:44 pm Does it really matter? If the world is an illusion, I live my life. If the world is real, I live my life.
Instead of the world being an illusion [in a good way] SOME theists insist their real God [actually illusory] created a real world. God then sent via his chosen agent his message which sanctioned the killing of non-believers. The above is the result.
Note this thread I raised;
Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25316
I believe it is very pragmatic and optimal to start from the perspective the world is an illusion [MAYA] then differentiate what is good illusions from evil illusions.
Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:22 am
The world an ILL-US-ION?
We experience the world essentially as an electromagnetically charged sick state of our own existence.
Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:28 am
Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:34 am
Logik wrote: ↑Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:43 am
You can do that with or without solipsism. Just practice tribalism if it satisfies you.
Is cannibalism in or out?
Short-circuit your serotonin, dopamine, endorphin and oxytocin receptors however you see fit!
What if I cause a high-charge melt-down? Will you pay my electroneurosurgery?
Right
It should be an amendment in basic human rights.
"So solipsism... etc" when did you start to stutter? I apologize if you actually have speech impediment. Then it's not funny.
There are many paths to satisfaction. Have you tried heroin? I heard it trumps quoting philosophers.
I've never heard Trump ever quoting any philosopher.
Or you could be a well-compertmentalized schizophrenic. The voices could have great ideas...
The voices may tell you, for instance: the world is a solipsitic state. Or for another instance: The world is not a solipsitic state.
Re: Is The World An Illusion?
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:27 am
I don't know. Is the belief that I am not an illusion what is holding you back from devouring me for dinner?
If that's the case I am just going to say "cannibalism is out". I may well be an illusion in your had, but I still have (illusionary) self-preservation instincts.
But if you still have an insatiable desire for human flesh - auto-cannibalism is an option.
You don't have medical insurance in your illusionary world? Poor imagination...
I am going to try a quick experiment, OK? I think you need an optometrist, but I need to be sure. Do you see any difference between the following two letters: T t
I don't know about your voices, but this is what my voices tell me. Verbatim: The world may or may not be a solipsistic state. How would you figure out which world you are in?
And since I am no closer to contriving an experiment in which I can tell the difference between a solipsistic and a non-solipsistic state, it is word that has absolutely no empirical meaning to me.
P.S I don't have a lisp. You just don't know how to spell "solipsism" and "solipsistic".