Philosophy Now Forum

commonsense wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:01 pm Does the perpetrator deserve empathy?

No, none! It was a deliberate act! The parents should be punished too for raising such bad kid!

HexHammer wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:17 am

commonsense wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:01 pm Does the perpetrator deserve empathy?

No, none! It was a deliberate act! The parents should be punished too for raising such bad kid!

Oh please. The stupid old bat was 83 and should have been put down years ago anyway.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:24 am

HexHammer wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:17 am

commonsense wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:01 pm Does the perpetrator deserve empathy?

No, none! It was a deliberate act! The parents should be punished too for raising such bad kid!

Oh please. The stupid old bat was 83 and should have been put down years ago anyway.

Topic is empathy, not justice which is 2 completely different things. I just answered accordingly.

Besides it's unlawful to consider the victims age, so it's ok to kill elders.

What I breezed through in my OP was how utterly appalled I was that anyone could possibly have empathy/sympathy for the driver.

Is there no one who would pity the driver, perhaps in addition to the family of the deceased rather than instead of?

Are there no arguments favoring compassion for the driver?

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:40 am What I breezed through in my OP was how utterly appalled I was that anyone could possibly have empathy/sympathy for the driver.

Is there no one who would pity the driver, perhaps in addition to the family of the deceased rather than instead of?

Are there no arguments favoring compassion for the driver?

What good does it do to speak of empathy when we are incapable of it? Being capable of empathy would enable a person to put themselves into the position of another as i previously described. Then we would show compassion. We cannot do it. For us universal empathy and compassion for the human condition is an emotional potential. As we are we are limited to making judgments

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:32 am

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:40 am What I breezed through in my OP was how utterly appalled I was that anyone could possibly have empathy/sympathy for the driver.

Is there no one who would pity the driver, perhaps in addition to the family of the deceased rather than instead of?

Are there no arguments favoring compassion for the driver?

What good does it do to speak of empathy when we are incapable of it? Being capable of empathy would enable a person to put themselves into the position of another as i previously described. Then we would show compassion. We cannot do it. For us universal empathy and compassion for the human condition is an emotional potential. As we are we are limited to making judgments

That might be true of you. Religion destroys natural empathy.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:42 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:32 am

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:40 am What I breezed through in my OP was how utterly appalled I was that anyone could possibly have empathy/sympathy for the driver.

Is there no one who would pity the driver, perhaps in addition to the family of the deceased rather than instead of?

Are there no arguments favoring compassion for the driver?

What good does it do to speak of empathy when we are incapable of it? Being capable of empathy would enable a person to put themselves into the position of another as i previously described. Then we would show compassion. We cannot do it. For us universal empathy and compassion for the human condition is an emotional potential. As we are we are limited to making judgments

That might be true of you. Religion destroys natural empathy.

There is no natural empathy for animal man. Empathy as previously described is a quality of higher Man. It requires a degree of consciousness we lack as creatures of reaction to get out of our own way and its preconceptions and put ourselves into the position of another. We are capable of selective sympathy but universal empathy is a conscious human potential.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:45 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:42 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:32 am

What good does it do to speak of empathy when we are incapable of it? Being capable of empathy would enable a person to put themselves into the position of another as i previously described. Then we would show compassion. We cannot do it. For us universal empathy and compassion for the human condition is an emotional potential. As we are we are limited to making judgments

That might be true of you. Religion destroys natural empathy.

There is no natural empathy for animal man. Empathy as previously described is a quality of higher Man. It requires a degree of consciousness we lack as creatures of reaction to get out of our own way and its preconceptions and put ourselves into the position of another. We are capable of selective sympathy but universal empathy is a conscious human potential.

Babble. You only say that because you don't have any.

It's a given for most folks, I think, to be compassionate to those who 'deserve' it.

Clearly: the driver doesn't deserve diddly (except to go under the jail).

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:41 pm It's a given for most folks, I think, to be compassionate to those who 'deserve' it.

Clearly: the driver doesn't deserve diddly (except to go under the jail).

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Compassion affects the givers, not the getters.

Generosity affects the getters.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:41 pm It's a given for most folks, I think, to be compassionate to those who 'deserve' it.

Clearly: the driver doesn't deserve diddly (except to go under the jail).

'Under' the jail? Ffs. She didn't set out to murder someone. Practically everyone who drives is incompetent and dangerous.

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:50 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:41 pm It's a given for most folks, I think, to be compassionate to those who 'deserve' it.

Clearly: the driver doesn't deserve diddly (except to go under the jail).

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Compassion affects the givers, not the getters.

Generosity affects the getters.

Thank you for comparing and distinguishing between compassion and genorisity (well put).

If I may, please allow me to try to compare sympathy and empathy (MW may have it differently, but this is how I see it):

To have sympathy is to mirror the feelings of another. If one is sympathetic to a sad person, then one is sad as well. I'll allow that it isn't necessary to know why that person is feeling sad. That is to say that it is not necessary to have cognitive understanding of another person's environment.

To have empathy for another is to have an understanding of that person's environment and to recognize that person's emotions as revealed through behavior, but not to take on those emotions. If one is empathetic of a happy person, then one understands the circumstances that are considered delightful and recognizes behaviors that are indicative of happiness.

I think your definition of empathy applies to sympathy, and your definition of sympathy applies to empathy.

And still the pedestrian died.

Look here, this is the original hypothetical...

The driver of the car was a 16-year-old wild child who was driving the family car without permission. She was distracted by a text message from her best friend. Meanwhile, the car was traveling at twice the posted speed limit.

...there's nuthin' admirable about this person, nuthin' about her warrants sympathy/empathy.

'She didn't mean to!'

But she did!

'I didn't mean to!'

But you did!

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:58 pm And still the pedestrian died.

Look here, this is the original hypothetical...

The driver of the car was a 16-year-old wild child who was driving the family car without permission. She was distracted by a text message from her best friend. Meanwhile, the car was traveling at twice the posted speed limit.

...there's nuthin' admirable about this person, nuthin' about her warrants sympathy/empathy.

'She didn't mean to!'

But she did!

'I didn't mean to!'

But you did!

You are defending judgment which is the norm but empathy is without judgment by definition. It is a quality which allows us to experience another without judgment.

Empathy is a human potential. Jesus demonstrated it on the cross when he said "forgive them for they know not what they do." He could put himself into their position as slaves to the human condition. He was capable of compassion for humanity as a whole. Of course only a rare few become capable of empathy. Our preconceptions prevent it and demand judgment.

Just think how philosophy is different for the philosopher capable of empathy. The philosopher king would be capable of empathy which is another reason those caught up in judgment cannot understand even intellectually what a philosopher king would have to be.

Q - Where would a philosopher be without judgment?

A - A real philosopher. They could experience rather than judge the contradictions normal for the human condition.