Philosophy Now Forum

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:32 am However there is a provable real empirical "I" that is capable of thinking, talking and confirming the following;
1. there is no separate "I" [you and I agree on this]

This is a misleading dichotomy a typical error of thinking.

To prove anything is to separate reality into a prover and the proof which is unecessary since proof would always be inseparable from the prover, proof would be the prover and the prover would be the proof..no proof without prover, no prover without proof... but this is all just meaningless mental activity arising and falling in awareness.

The mind aka the conscious apect of unconscious awareness attempts to split reality in two in order to make sense of the world. In reality life is one unitary action, there is no one living life. But then what the mind does is it says ''.. I am living life...'' the illusory division arises right there in that cognition, its an illusion within an illusion, there is no escape from the illusion of SELF, there no ''other self'' to deny it or prove it. SELF aka AWARENESS just IS.

So the idea there is a prover isn't really there at all, its a mental projection aka a mirage...A real empirical prover would have to split itself in two...where you would have a prover here and the proof over there...this is impossible, there is only HERE

The mere mention of the word ''proof'' would be like the eyeball being able to look at its own eyeball without using a mirror in order to empirically prove yes there is the eyeball.

Awareness cannot look at itself, it can look at every thing except itself, therefore all things are SELF...there is nothing outside of SELF, it is ONE.

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:27 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:32 am However there is a provable real empirical "I" that is capable of thinking, talking and confirming the following;
1. there is no separate "I" [you and I agree on this]

This is a misleading dichotomy a typical error of thinking.

To prove anything is to separate reality into a prover and the proof which is unecessary since proof would always be inseparable from the prover, proof would be the prover and the prover would be the proof..no proof without prover, no prover without proof... but this is all just meaningless mental activity arising and falling in awareness.

The mind aka the conscious apect of unconscious awareness attempts to split reality in two in order to make sense of the world. In reality life is one unitary action, there is no one living life. But then what the mind does is it says ''.. I am living life...'' the illusory division arises right there in that cognition, its an illusion within an illusion, there is no escape from the illusion of SELF, there no ''other self'' to deny it or prove it. SELF aka AWARENESS just IS.

So the idea there is a prover isn't really there at all, its a mental projection aka a mirage...A real empirical prover would have to split itself in two...where you would have a prover here and the proof over there...this is impossible, there is only HERE

The mere mention of the word ''proof'' would be like the eyeball being able to look at its own eyeball without using a mirror in order to empirically prove yes there is the eyeball.

Awareness cannot look at itself, it can look at every thing except itself, therefore all things are SELF...there is nothing outside of SELF, it is ONE.

Since you are so persistent on the above, that would be delusional, i.e.

Delusional:
-characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.
-based on or having faulty judgement; mistaken.
Google Dictionary

A delusion is a mistaken belief that is held with strong conviction even in the presence of superior evidence to the contrary.
As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or some other misleading effects of perception.
-wiki

Matter and Consciousness are two different things, the former is a vortex of kinetic energy and the latter is a perfectly still (latent) condition having unlimited potential energy, called "Quantum Vacuum"

While searching for a cause-effect relationship in the diminutive succession of a thing, an investigator reaches a state where the thing cannot be further differentiated, reaching a steadfast state (subjective first person experience) having vast potential (Quantum-Vacuum).

This is the state of pure Consciousness of a self-realised person enjoying the blissful perception, "Sat-Chit-Ananda" ( according to over 5000-year old Vedanta of ancient India), translated in English as "Truth-Consciousness-Bliss".

I AM THAT I AM.

From Belief to Clarity.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:04 am
One point is; you have to accept the human mind is very fallible and more so in your case when you have NOT established a reasonable database of knowledge relevant to understand [not necessary agree with] the issues involved in this specific issue.

Every living being and every non-living entity is new in every moment, because the moment in life that contains everything renews itself every moment. There is nothing there to grab hold and say this is actually so.

Knowing and the known are not an actuality. Understanding this is release from mental bondage.

Knowledge informs the illusory nature of reality.

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Dontaskme wrote:
Every living being and every non living entity is new in every moment because the moment in life that contains
everything renews itself every moment. There is nothing there to grab hold and say this is actually so

The Universe is indeed eternally creating new moments in time and space but a moment is so small that it cannot actually be measured
It is as close to instantaneous as it is possible to get without time actually stopping and motion freezing and is very infinitesimal indeed

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:25 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Every living being and every non living entity is new in every moment because the moment in life that contains
everything renews itself every moment. There is nothing there to grab hold and say this is actually so

The Universe is indeed eternally creating new moments in time and space but a moment is so small that it cannot actually be measured
It is as close to instantaneous as it is possible to get without time actually stopping and motion freezing and is very infinitesimal indeed

Exactly, there is no in-between now and now except what the mind puts there appearing to DAM up the flow,albeit illusory.

There is no time. There is only the Absolute
Actual-now in all actuality.

.

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:44 pm

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:25 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Every living being and every non living entity is new in every moment because the moment in life that contains
everything renews itself every moment. There is nothing there to grab hold and say this is actually so

The Universe is indeed eternally creating new moments in time and space but a moment is so small that it cannot actually be measured
It is as close to instantaneous as it is possible to get without time actually stopping and motion freezing and is very infinitesimal indeed

Exactly, there is no in-between now and now except what the mind puts there appearing to DAM up the flow,albeit illusory.

There is no time. There is only the Absolute
Actual-now in all actuality.

You are not likely to see the 500 pound gorilla.

The reality is all the above is from your living mind/brain.
The above is a resultant your real desperate empirical brain/mind in turmoil [subliminally].

If not, you tell me where and how else?
But note whatever your answers [delusion], they have to come from a living brain/mind.
Thus whatever the Absolute, that is conditioned by your living brain/mind at one level in interaction with other brains/minds and within your living brain/mind at another level.

The mad ones, the brain damage, drug addicts, etc. also have direct experiences of the above supposedly divine revelations.

Note the Buddhists, Jains and others knew of this and deal direct with their brain/mind instead of some illusory Absolute with strings attached.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:39 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:44 pm

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:25 pm
The Universe is indeed eternally creating new moments in time and space but a moment is so small that it cannot actually be measured
It is as close to instantaneous as it is possible to get without time actually stopping and motion freezing and is very infinitesimal indeed

Exactly, there is no in-between now and now except what the mind puts there appearing to DAM up the flow,albeit illusory.

There is no time. There is only the Absolute
Actual-now in all actuality.

You are not likely to see the 500 pound gorilla.

No it won't be seen because the elephant in the living room (aka the 500 pound gorilla) is invisible to the physical eye.

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:29 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:39 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:44 pm

Exactly, there is no in-between now and now except what the mind puts there appearing to DAM up the flow,albeit illusory.

There is no time. There is only the Absolute
Actual-now in all actuality.

You are not likely to see the 500 pound gorilla.

No it won't be seen because the elephant in the living room (aka the 500 pound gorilla) is invisible to the physical eye.

This is how a schizo serial killer would defend himself and insist "the invisible man held my hand against my will to kill those victims."

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:49 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:29 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:39 am
You are not likely to see the 500 pound gorilla.

No it won't be seen because the elephant in the living room (aka the 500 pound gorilla) is invisible to the physical eye.

This is how a schizo serial killer would defend himself and insist "the invisible man held my hand against my will to kill those victims."

Only a ''separate self'' could kill itself.

Fortunately, no such entity exists.

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:01 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:49 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:29 am

No it won't be seen because the elephant in the living room (aka the 500 pound gorilla) is invisible to the physical eye.

This is how a schizo serial killer would defend himself and insist "the invisible man held my hand against my will to kill those victims."

Only a ''separate self'' could kill itself.

Fortunately, no such entity exists.

If there is no 'separate self'
why don't you commit suicide?

A normal sane person would not commit suicide because there is a separate self [empirical] to be preserved at least till the inevitable.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:10 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:01 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:49 am
This is how a schizo serial killer would defend himself and insist "the invisible man held my hand against my will to kill those victims."

Only a ''separate self'' could kill itself.

Fortunately, no such entity exists.

If there is no 'separate self'
why don't you commit suicide?

If there is no 'separate self'

What would be committing suicide?

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:33 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:10 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:01 am

Only a ''separate self'' could kill itself.

Fortunately, no such entity exists.

If there is no 'separate self'
why don't you commit suicide?

If there is no 'separate self'

What would be committing suicide?

I meant your physical self jumping off a 10-storey building.
Why don't 'you' do it after all there is no separate self but only the absolute?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:26 am I meant your physical self jumping off a 10-storey building.
Why don't 'you' do it after all there is no separate self but only the absolute?

The 'separate self' is an idea arsing within the Absolute SELF

It's an illusory appearance of ALL THAT IS, of which no part can ever be missing. Likewise no part can ever be added. There is HERE NOW - NOWHERE only all that is, was and ever will be infinitely.

.

Even if the sense of ''separate self'' was to commit suicide, the action would still be ALL THAT IS WAS AND EVER WILL BE in action commiting suicide albeit illusory, since ALL THAT IS has no parts, except in this conception...within the dream of separation.

Every element that is found in nature of ALL THAT IS makes up what nature is in every moment. The elements of nature are also found in man and makes up what man is in every moment. It is therefore obvious that man is not separate from ALL THAT IS...that can never be parted.

This is NONDUALITY - its not a theory, its first person actual direct experience...everything else is heresy.

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:10 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:26 am I meant your physical self jumping off a 10-storey building.
Why don't 'you' do it after all there is no separate self but only the absolute?

The 'separate self' is an idea arsing within the Absolute SELF

It's an illusory appearance of ALL THAT IS, of which no part can ever be missing. Likewise no part can ever be added. There is HERE NOW - NOWHERE only all that is, was and ever will be infinitely.

.

Even if the sense of ''separate self'' was to commit suicide, the action would still be ALL THAT IS WAS AND EVER WILL BE in action commiting suicide albeit illusory, since ALL THAT IS has no parts, except in this conception...within the dream of separation.

Every element that is found in nature of ALL THAT IS makes up what nature is in every moment. The elements of nature are also found in man and makes up what man is in every moment. It is therefore obvious that man is not separate from ALL THAT IS...that can never be parted.

This is NONDUALITY - its not a theory, its first person actual direct experience...everything else is heresy.

I am aware of the theory why there is no permanent transcendental self, i.e. the soul.
I am asking, why don't you commit suicide regardless of what is the theory.
If you understand "why" you will understand the empirical-I and there is no Absolute.
Do you know "why"?