Philosophy Now Forum

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:13 am

Greta wrote: ↑Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:26 pm An important corollary to this is the idea of the initial state - the form and qualities of of the nucleus that determine the nature of its radial influence, setting up the potentials and limitations of what follows.

...beginning with the super-set of all such divergent developments initialized in a center ready to burst, the Big Bang itself. Though we try to understand how things may unfold from a point, the initial state to which there is none prior, the one that spread its own seeds abroad remains latent within an infinitesimal that can't be penetrated. It it were, that would seem to imply the potential for understanding each one of it's subsets in full whether macro or micro.

In short, virtually every mystery would be annulled except its Purpose for those who still insist on asking...a semi-theistic version of the First Cause.

I was originally thinking about things like seeds, eggs, snowflakes and so on. No doubt the BB set the potentials and limitations of the universe x amount of energy present, y of gravity, z of the SNF and so on. Some observers prefer to retain discipline and not extrapolate more about that than is rationally justified while others prefer to speculate about all manner of possibilities. Each has a role to play under the broad heading of "human exploration".

Greta wrote: ↑Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:26 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:05 pm

Greta wrote: ↑Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:19 am Yes, as a "secularist" I know people will think this goes against the grain but I like this piece ⵙ

Of late I've often thought about similar things (and trying to work out how to get the concept into sci fi fiction) in considering atomic and cellular nuclei, the solar system, the galaxy, and so forth ...

It seems to me that entities with this formation can form building blocks of grander, more complex structures.

Points, lines and circles are the constants of the universe either as abstract structures from which all structures form or even in movements we see in everyday life.

Also individual planets and stars with everything emanating from the core. Or organisational structures, where the nucleus is the owners or the board and all else emanates out from that centre. Or cities, with the CBD acting as a nucleus. Or nations with the capital cities being at the centre of activity.

An important corollary to this is the idea of the initial state - the form and qualities of of the nucleus that determine the nature of its radial influence, setting up the potentials and limitations of what follows.

Very true, I agree with all the above (glad you are back, I thought you were going to leave for awhile)....so we are stuck with universal constants regardless of the phenomena....

Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:53 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:12 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:51 pm

Simone could appreciate the deeper meanings of the circumpunct from not being limited to a dualistic mindset. How can the infinitely small dot be infinitely more than all? Must the idea be condemned as absurd by the dominant dualistic mind?

All phenomena are composed of and compose points relative to their position in space with this position itself following the same form and function as a point. The connection of these points observes the point fundamentally as 1 point in the respect the connection observes a negative dimension conducive to an imaginary seperation where this seperation allows us to observe the one point approximately through many points (which give rise to the various physical, emotional and mental phenomena of our everyday lives which as composed of points mediate us to the point through the points itself).

In these respects the observation of one point through multiple points is a mediary point inself in the respect the point is dual inversive.

This dual nature of the point as pure being (1 dimensional) and pure nothingness (0d dimensional/inversive) further synthesizes as the point itself being the prime foundation of all limit while simultaneously being without limit with this dualism observing the "point" as the foundation of all consciousness through the axiom as self-evidence.

Here is where you lose me

"Here" as the "above" paragraph or "below"...I am assuming the above one:

The point itself is subject to a dualism under the common definition of the 0d point and a theoretical 1d point.

This dual nature of the point as pure being (1 dimensional) and pure nothingness (0d dimensional/inversive) further synthesizes as the point itself being the prime foundation of all limit while simultaneously being without limit with this dualism observing the "point" as the foundation of all consciousness through the axiom as self-evidence.

I've come to accept the concept of the six dimensional universe as the most sensible. Bottom up and top down, it begins with the point defined as a limit. The point has no dimensions. An infinity of connected points creates the first dimension we perceive as a line. An infinity of lines extending from the initial line creates surface or the second dimension and so on.

the problem of a point being zero dimensional observes the line as infinite points fundamentally being one of infinite lines, but this nature of the line between points at the minute level reduces it to a 1d point relativistically speaking...

The problem with the six dimensional universe interpretation (up/down, left/right, forwards/backwards) it that it is subject to one direction of time and becomes 7 directions. This 7th direction itself, as 1 direction through time as founded in 1 direction observes that these 6 directions exist through 1 direction with this 1 direction (being the foundation for up/down, left/right, forwards/backwards) being subject to the same cycling as 6 directions...in these respects time expands in all directions ad-finitum to form a 1 dimensional point when relative to itself where the infinite 0d points within these continually manifesting 6 (or seven dimension) cancelling themselves as 1.

I may have to expound on these this point.




To consider the Absolute as one dimensional limits the Absolute which is beyond dimensional limitations. So the Absolute without dimensions or a limit beyond our conceptions is pure conscious potential or spirit. This potential must be more than all the universal manifestations of potentials into more course forms of matter and lower vibrational frequencies. The Dot then is more than the infinity of its involutions. Of course the process by which the Absolute initiates creation is another matter but I just wanted to supply my understandings of the Dot.

Relativistic truth is an absolute.

Eod

the problem of a point being zero dimensional observes the line as infinite points fundamentally being one of infinite lines, but this nature of the line between points at the minute level reduces it to a 1d point relativistically speaking...

The problem with the six dimensional universe interpretation (up/down, left/right, forwards/backwards) it that it is subject to one direction of time and becomes 7 directions. This 7th direction itself, as 1 direction through time as founded in 1 direction observes that these 6 directions exist through 1 direction with this 1 direction (being the foundation for up/down, left/right, forwards/backwards) being subject to the same cycling as 6 directions...in these respects time expands in all directions ad-finitum to form a 1 dimensional point when relative to itself where the infinite 0d points within these continually manifesting 6 (or seven dimension) cancelling themselves as 1.

My understanding of the point seems different than yours. Again I've learned that a point has no dimensions so cannot be defined as other than a "limit." That being the case the dot within the circle includes the limits of creation. The process of creation takes place within the dot - within a limit of no dimensions. From this perspective Simone makes perfect sense.

For her part, Simone Weil, in one of her last essays, wrote:

"Toujours le même infiniment petit, qui est infiniment plus que tout." [72]

[Always the same infinitely small, which is infinitely more than all.]

Dimensions provide the limitations for creation but not of its conscious Source the process of creation takes place within. The infinitely small and All have their existence within the point of no dimensions.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:31 am Eod

the problem of a point being zero dimensional observes the line as infinite points fundamentally being one of infinite lines, but this nature of the line between points at the minute level reduces it to a 1d point relativistically speaking...

The problem with the six dimensional universe interpretation (up/down, left/right, forwards/backwards) it that it is subject to one direction of time and becomes 7 directions. This 7th direction itself, as 1 direction through time as founded in 1 direction observes that these 6 directions exist through 1 direction with this 1 direction (being the foundation for up/down, left/right, forwards/backwards) being subject to the same cycling as 6 directions...in these respects time expands in all directions ad-finitum to form a 1 dimensional point when relative to itself where the infinite 0d points within these continually manifesting 6 (or seven dimension) cancelling themselves as 1.

My understanding of the point seems different than yours. Again I've learned that a point has no dimensions so cannot be defined as other than a "limit." That being the case the dot within the circle includes the limits of creation. The process of creation takes place within the dot - within a limit of no dimensions. From this perspective Simone makes perfect sense.

For her part, Simone Weil, in one of her last essays, wrote:

"Toujours le même infiniment petit, qui est infiniment plus que tout." [72]

[Always the same infinitely small, which is infinitely more than all.]

Dimensions provide the limitations for creation but not of its conscious Source the process of creation takes place within. The infinitely small and All have their existence within the point of no dimensions.

Your understanding of the point is correct. However if we take the 0d point and invert it to a 1d point we get infinite limit which is absent of definition dually to the 0d point while simultaneously being the foundation of it as "infinite definition".

To say the "dot as a limit of no dimensions" observes a contradiction as limit is the foundation of dimension, hence we may necessitate intuitively that the point has a dualistic nature at minimum as both 1 dimensional and 0d dimensional.

Eodnhoj7, Consider the dot as a physical depiction of NOW. The process of existence takes place within NOW yet now is also a description of a moment in time. Without dimensions the infinitely large and infinitely small are both within NOW. Does this fit into your explanation of the "dual nature of the point as pure being (1 dimensional) and pure nothingness (0d" ?

I was just thinking how to introduce the idea of a phenomenon being the union of three forces into the dualism thread. From this perspective there is no "nothing." Consider a musical scale and the space between notes. Is the space nothing or just the passage of forces between their unification as a note?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:06 pm Eodnhoj7, Consider the dot as a physical depiction of NOW. The process of existence takes place within NOW yet now is also a description of a moment in time. Without dimensions the infinitely large and infinitely small are both within NOW. Does this fit into your explanation of the "dual nature of the point as pure being (1 dimensional) and pure nothingness (0d" ?

I was just thinking how to introduce the idea of a phenomenon being the union of three forces into the dualism thread. From this perspective there is no "nothing." Consider a musical scale and the space between notes. Is the space nothing or just the passage of forces between their unification as a note?

Now as a moment in time exists as the mediation between a dualism of "past" and "future" where time exists as a relation of parts (in this case conceptual measurements). "Now" as a point in time, will all past and future events being points in time as an extension of the "now" observes "now" is pure directed movement existing through itself as itself. This reflects the nature of the 1d point.

However considering "Now" exists as an approximation of future and past "nows" what we understand of "past, present and future" is a multiplicity of "nows" where the unity of "now" is approximated through multiplicity and only a partial structure is observed. This inversion of the 1d point, that "now" exists as an extension of, occurs through the 0d point where the 0d point as "void" or "nothingness" is the inversion of unified structure into multiple structures. However this multiplicity of 1 results in it maintaining itself through a trifold nature where 1 and 3 are the same.

To break down 1 into three parts as 1/3 observes each part as 1 in itself where these three parts exist as 1. In simpler terms to observe this nature qualitatively in words (count the number of "being"): Being exists through Being as Being.


"Void" is merely a veil to being that cancels itself out opening itself up to "being". Truth lies in the heart of emptiness whether we see this in the confusion of everyday life or the fragility of the human condition as both confusion and weakness are merely void.

To get to your point a dualism, as 2 in itself is 1. A dualism as positive and negative exists through neurality as "both/and" or "either/or" hence all dualism points to both 1 and 3. You are correct, there is no-nothing. The nature of a musical scale, where the space between the notes is merely a means of inversion where one note changes into another (as one note changing into another is a movement from unity to mulitplicity) where this continual "inversion" of notes observes the musical scale existing through a projective nature.

From a perspective of physics there is always some sound median between the notes, and any percieved "nothingness" is merely an observation of relation where the notes as parts exist through eachother as eachother as one part exists through another. Particulation is inversion of unity through void with these multiple parts (localities or atoms) as "parts" existing as 1. Change is an observation of void and in itself is illusive.

Everything has already been written through one perpetual act of free will as pure being where fate is strictly an understanding of the choices we already made.